Ariel Helwani, the premier voice in sports journalism, along with Aaron, delves into insights from his career, the art of storytelling, and the motivating journeys of prominent fighters like Corey Sandhagen, Israel Adesanya, Alexander 'The Great' Volkanovski, and Conor McGregor, all while emphasizing the importance of trust, resilience, and emotional connection in the world of sports reporting.
Ariel Helwani is a prominent Canadian sports journalist celebrated for his extensive coverage of the UFC and the broader world of MMA. Born in Montreal, Ariel has been at the forefront of MMA journalism, hosting shows like "The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani." His insightful interviews and in-depth analyses have solidified his reputation as a leading voice in the sport.
Ariel Helwani, the premier voice in sports journalism, along with Aaron, delves into insights from his career, the art of storytelling, and the motivating journeys of prominent fighters like Corey Sandhagen, Israel Adesanya, Alexander 'The Great' Volkanovski, and Conor McGregor, all while emphasizing the importance of trust, resilience, and emotional connection in the world of sports reporting.
Ariel Helwani is a prominent Canadian sports journalist celebrated for his extensive coverage of the UFC and the broader world of MMA. Born in Montreal, Ariel has been at the forefront of MMA journalism, hosting shows like "The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani." His insightful interviews and in-depth analyses have solidified his reputation as a leading voice in the sport.
Welcome back to another episode of the bigger than me podcast. Here is your host, aaron. In a million years, I did not believe that I would ever have the opportunity to sit down with a man who's so thoughtful. He's been an inspiration to this podcast. I listened to his interview, study it, try and learn from it, try and improve from it and figure out how I can become a better interviewer. My guest today is the great Ariel Heldwani. I have the pleasure of sitting down with the man, the myth, the legend, an individual I find inspiring on a weekly basis Ariel Heldwani, the king, the master of Journalism within MMA and all combat sports. Ariel, thank you so much for being willing to do this. Would you mind introducing yourself?
Ariel Helwani:I know it's great to be here. I really appreciate it. Thank you for the kind words, aaron. It's I know we've gone back and forth for quite some time and I'm glad you were able to fit me in your very busy schedule. So I appreciate it, and I was just kind of testing you, because I just sort of sprung this this, this, this availability on you and you were ready to go, like the pro that you are. So thank you very much, it's great to be here.
Aaron Pete:I always have time for the goat and always willing to make sure. You put me on my toes because I Want to make sure that I get my questions right, but you're a person who just goes into interviews ready to go. It's all in your mind already. So you're putting my skills to the test and I can't thank you enough for that. First I'd like to thank you because throughout the pandemic, that's when I discovered DC and Heldwani the show, and it was a very dark time and a lot of uncertainty, and your show got me through it and made me an absolute fan, obsessed with MMA as a consequence of the work you and DC did. So I first want to thank you for that.
Ariel Helwani:Wow, thank you very much. So you weren't a fan before that.
Aaron Pete:I didn't watch a lot of UFC. I'd seen the Conor McGregor Floyd Mayweather fight, but at a distance, and then started following and have been every day ever since that's why and how did you find the show.
Ariel Helwani:If it like wasn't on your, if MMA wasn't on your radar, how did you stumble upon the show?
Aaron Pete:I would always watch the countdowns. So I started to get introduced to it and watch the countdowns at the gym and then I clicked on a video and started watching it and when you started doing those like what day it is, those were just the funniest, like light-hearted fun, take a breath. I was watching the news, trying to figure out what we're supposed to be doing, and then to be able to tune into that and kind of reduce those nerves just meant everything.
Ariel Helwani:Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, that was a really great time, something that was kind of born out of darkness, and, yeah, I'm so thankful. I wish that we could have done it longer. Who knows, maybe in the future we can, we can reunite.
Ariel Helwani:But I receive many messages from people like that, like what you just said to me, and it's it's kind of mind-blowing because to me is like the show is just once a week for an hour, but you kind of forget that there was no new programming, there was no new content. It was very dark and depressing at the time. So, the best, the best compliment that I think I could receive anyone who Creates content, host shows, whatever is like that. You're an escape for people, right, that you can. You know you can be there for someone when they need something to think about, something else to think about. Just let their mind go elsewhere. That's the best, because there's so much stuff out there, there's so many options, and so that people choose you and that they're interested in listening to you as opposed to everything else, and that you're that escape for them. That, to me, is the best thing that I can receive. So, thank you very much for that. I really appreciate it.
Aaron Pete:The other piece to that, though, is I find that you're so thoughtful about how you develop Storylines and how you add those tidbits in. They keep it fresh, keep it exciting for people. When did that become something that you knew you were, something you cared about, something you were interested in is always having, like, a new Facet, a new approach to the show and keeping people excited and engaged.
Ariel Helwani:I think and thank you for that, I think that the reason why I do that, or I feel strongly about that, is is because I consume a lot of content, right, I listen to a lot of shows, I watch a lot of shows and I know what Connects with me, and I always feel I'm a very passionate person, I'm a very Emotional person, I'm a very sensitive person and I always feel like If I'm not emotionally invested, if my heart doesn't feel something when I'm watching this, when I'm listening to this, then it's just, it's just noise, it's just a lot of noise, it's just, it's just noise, it's just crap. And so I try to Get people to feel about my content the way I want to feel about other people's content. I'm not very good at a lot of things. I'm not good at, you know, finances. I'm not good at building things. I'm not good at, you know a lot of stuff that every you know alpha male out there prides himself I'm being good at.
Ariel Helwani:But the one thing I do think that I'm good at is, uh, creating content, hosting shows, producing shows that gets people to care, um, and it's not just like the surface level stuff, gets people to care on an emotional level, um, and I think that's very, very important.
Ariel Helwani:That's why, on my shows, I don't Focus too much on the X's and O's, so to speak, because I'm not an analyst, I'm not a fighter, I've never done it before and it would be disingenuous of me to do that. But if I can, uh, shed a light on who these people are, um, you know what they're all about, what they've been through, um, what their motivations are, things like that, like they're, they're, they're people, their back stories. I think that I'm doing my job as best as possible, and that's ultimately the stuff. Like, at this point there's so many fights and they're, you know, they're kind of blending into each other, but it's the characters, it's the personalities, that's the stuff that keeps me coming back for more, and so that's that's how I try to, you know, cover the sports that I cover.
Aaron Pete:Fantastic and you can see, following your career and the work you're doing, the attention to detail you have when you're heading into event. How do I want people to feel, how do I want them to connect with this, and you can see that that's unique. Even watching, uh, recent shows that you've done the KSI um, tommy fury fight like I can see what you're doing. That's unique from the other analysts to make people feel and connect and get excited. It's not just another event, you're making it feel unique. I'm wondering if you can take us to the beginning, your origin story. When did journalism become something where you said this is the path for me.
Ariel Helwani:Well, um, I was always a huge sports fan, loved sports, and I always loved consuming sports content, whether it was magazines back in the day or TV shows. Obviously, podcasts and the internet weren't a big thing, but I do remember when the internet like first came to our house in 1997. I was like, wow, this is unbelievable. You could go to NBAcom and look at NBA videos whenever you want. This is amazing. But the real turning point for me was I was in the ninth grade. I was in English class in Montreal and I was supposed to be reading something, but instead I was reading Sports Illustrated. I'd subscribed to Sports Illustrated since I was a little kid because I loved sports and in particular American sports. So, like when my family would go on a trip to New York or Boston, I would watch ESPN on loop, I would watch Sports Center on loop, because I was like, wow, I always loved the NBA and the NFL and those sports weren't really covered as much in Canada on TSN. Sportsnet came afterwards they focused a lot on hockey and I didn't love hockey as much.
Ariel Helwani:Anyway, I was reading this Sports Illustrated and they were breaking down the best schools in America for X, y and Z, for all different things, and there was a little blurb that stated that Syracuse University was the best school in America for sports broadcasting. And I remember thinking to myself like, wow, you could go to school to be a sports broadcaster, to learn sports journalism. That's unbelievable. And they had a list of some of the famous alumni guys like Bob Costas and Marv Albert, who are two guys that I really looked up to, and I remember like a light going off in my head Like I need to go to this place. This place sounds amazing.
Ariel Helwani:And so that was ninth grade, and then I had a few more years of school and by the time I ended up going to Syracuse, and that's kind of where it started for me. But what was interesting was when I got to Syracuse for the first time in my life, all the kids at the school all had the same dream that I did the kids in my program at Newhouse when I was growing up in Montreal, and no one really wanted to be a sports journalist or a sports broadcaster, and so for the and I've always been a bit of a lone wolf, I like to march to the beat of my own drum and be different than everyone, and so when I got to Syracuse, everyone wanted to be the next basketball, baseball, football broadcaster journalist, and so that's when I really decided that I would go down the combat route, because I loved combat sports and no one was really, you know, talking about it there.
Aaron Pete:What makes a great journalist, from your perspective?
Ariel Helwani:A great journalist is someone who listens, who is well researched, who is empathetic, who you know, obviously knows about the subject and is coming, you know, prepared and, like I said, is well researched. But they listen and they don't think they know everything. So I hate when someone is doing an interview and they're almost like trying to flex that they know about the subject, as opposed to just you know, coming with your research, but then you come with a clean slate in your mind and then you ask questions and you're very inquisitive. That's another big thing. But as far as like interviewing is concerned, to me like you have to listen, listen is number one.
Ariel Helwani:A big pet peeve of mine is when someone comes with a sheet of questions and they're just like rifling off questions and they're not listening to the answers. They're just waiting for that you know interview subject to stop speaking and then they can chime in with their next question. That's very bad. So you have to be inquisitive, you have to listen, you have to ask proper follow-ups, you have to be well researched and you have to. You know you can't cut corners. Now it's like you talk about journalism. You know there's been plenty of times where someone has told me like hey, I got a scoop, xyz is happening and if I was a lazy journalist I would just run with that. But then sometimes I'll go and reach out to another source and they would say well, actually it's not quite done. I would hold off if I were you. And then you reach out to another person. They tell you more information.
Ariel Helwani:Like, I believe, when you want to report something or break some news, you have to have at least two to three solid sources backing it up. You can't have just one, because you can get burned and if you don't, if you don't do that, you lose credibility. That's another big thing and you lose the trust of your audience. These are huge things. If they don't believe what you are saying, what you are telling them, what you're reporting, then you're not worth anything.
Ariel Helwani:I remember learning about a broadcaster named Walter Cronkite back in the day, and his his moniker, if you will, was that he was the most trusted man in America, and I just thought that that was incredible. He used to host the CBS Evening News and he's, you know, one of the all time great anchors news anchors in the history of television and the fact that the whole country trusted this man when he said something they knew was true, to me is the greatest compliment and I was enamored with that part of the reason why my second son is named Walter, because I just love that. You know that, that that credibility that he had in the way people spoke about him and just how strong and you know, like, how dependable he was. So all those things come to mind when I think of what makes a good journalist.
Aaron Pete:I'm wondering about how you think people develop sources over time from your perspective. Is that just building good rapport with people and then working towards that? What strategies to build that kind of relationship where people have that kind of trust? Because, as you're sort of describing, trust seems to go down over and over again and yet when you're cultivating sources, building those relationships, they're trusting you with their name, with what they're telling you, and that's a complex relationship to build and not one that many people have an experience having that type of trust with another person.
Ariel Helwani:Yeah, that's a great question, because there are some people you know I talk to them and they talk to me about other journalists and what they'll say is what they appreciate about me. And sometimes it's you know, it's a subconscious, like I'm not doing it on purpose and sometimes you have to just be thoughtful. The main thing that sources want is that they want to be treated like human beings, right? So if I just hit someone up consistently just to get information, just because I'm trying to get something from them, they're not going to want to help you out. But if you remember to wish someone a happy birthday, if you remember to ask about their family, if you remember to check in, if you remember to call or text without wanting anything at all, that goes a long way. You have to treat people and it's not like I'm calling and saying happy birthday or checking in because ultimately I want to get something, but it's like the same way you want.
Ariel Helwani:You can't look at a source as someone who is just giving you something that you're going to take, take, take, take, take from. You have to look at them in a way like a colleague or a friend who you're just trying to have this, like respected relationship with them and they respect you, you respect them and it goes both ways. And they'll know that. You know you're not just trying to use them and ultimately, when you get past that, they have to know that they can trust you. And and this is what I say to people all the time Like, sometimes you know they get worried like you can't. You know you can't use my name and this has to be between us. Or if they'll tell you something that's off the record that you can't even touch and maybe you could touch it two months down the line, but not right now you have to keep it in the vault you have. You know.
Ariel Helwani:There's conversations that happen all the time and what I say to them is if you ever find out that I have broken your trust, that I have taken this information and told someone else the same thing, like don't tell anyone but X, y and Z. I want you to never talk to me again. I want you to lose my number. I want you to hate me because I'm telling you right now that you can trust me, that I'm going to put this in the vault, that I will never break your trust. I've had moments in my career where the likes of Dana White has looked at me face to face, yelling at me saying who told you? And I would never in a million years tell anyone who told me if they asked me not to tell. And so that goes a long way as well. People have to be able to trust you and to know that you're not going to go around and talk behind their back and and break that trust. Do you think that that?
Aaron Pete:develops your character in a deeper way, Because most people never know anything worth sharing, Like they don't have some sort of information that people would covet and want access to and want to know that. That puts an extra onus on you to protect that, to make sure that you're you're careful in a way that most people never experienced, so they don't understand the, the importance of that role and the power that trust truly has. Yeah, no for sure.
Ariel Helwani:It's definitely very important, and it's not just about trust. It's not something that is needed in everyday life, in every walk of life, but in this particular job, like if you don't have that trust and that credibility and and and that, like that relationship with the people that you're dealing with, I mean, it's not exactly the same, but to a degree it's also the same. Like I asked people to come on my show all the time and I'm asking them for their time, so I'm taking from them. Now you could say, like oh, they're having a platform. But like, let's be honest, more and more fighters have their own platforms and they have social media and they have YouTube. They don't have to come on my show, but they do it because I think they know that I will treat them fairly, that they can trust me, that I won't blindside them, that I won't be disrespectful, I won't take up too much of their time.
Ariel Helwani:You know, usually the interviews are like 20, 30 minutes, unless they're in, you know, studio Um and and and. So they know that. Like, okay, I'm going to take care, I maybe will ask quote, unquote hard questions or the questions that people want the answers to. It's not going to be like a fluff interview, but it will be, you know, fair and balanced, and then they could go on their way, um, and so that that comes with it as well, that's, that's a different, you know, level of trust, um, but it's under the sort of same umbrella, and so, yeah, it's, it's, it's something that I'm very, very proud of, that I've never broken that trust, that I've never had someone saying I told you this and you, you backstab me.
Ariel Helwani:You know, I'm going on, uh, I started this, you know, on a professional level, since 2006,. So it's, you know, approaching 2004, which is crazy. 2024, which is crazy to me. Um, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's crucial, it's, it's absolutely crucial. And there have been times where I've had big news stories, big scoops, and someone has pleaded with me, for various reasons, not to break it, and to me, it's more important to keep those relationships than to get like a moment in the sun and break some story.
Aaron Pete:Absolutely. On another note, I want to understand your journey of being able to break topics down for people cause. I think that that's incredibly admirable, that you walked us through Israel, the Sanya's journey over the long period of time and how many fights he's been in, and the buildup with Alex Pereira and how that all came about. And I've asked it on your show before. But can you walk us through how you go about preparing for something like that? You walk us from beginning to end on certain key stories that have been going on for a while and break them down. How do you prepare for that?
Ariel Helwani:Honestly, it's not a lot of preparation, if I'm being honest.
Aaron Pete:That's so crazy, I live and breathe this stuff.
Ariel Helwani:Now, if you ask me to like break down, uh, I don't know, um, you know the Golden State Warriors third championship like yeah, okay, I'll have to do some research and remind myself. Um, but like, when it comes to this stuff, like if you say right now, like tell me about Alex Volkanovsky and his last three years, like I could do that off the top of my head because I have to live and breathe this stuff and I have to talk to him. So it's just, you know, it's just how you prepare and the stuff that you consume and what you're thinking about. Um, and, and I believe that every like in order, again going back to being emotionally invested, things need beginning, middles and ends. They need an arc. It's sort of like interviews as well, like the interview needs a beginning, a middle and an end. It needs it can't just be like throwing out random questions here or there. Like there needs to be some flow, and most people's lives have a flow to it as well. There's a story, there's an arc. It goes up, it goes down, and so I always feel like, in order to get people interested in the storylines, in the fights, in the, in the conflict, in the ups and, like, you have to present things like that as well.
Ariel Helwani:Um, luckily, though, now, uh, and especially now, for the first time in the last two years, you know, I have people working on the show with me, with Connor in particular, gc, who's very good at compiling this information and getting it on, um, you know, like getting it for the show through, you know, social media and whatnot, and, uh, it gives me, like you know, visual evidence, to, to, to tell these stories.
Ariel Helwani:So, like when we were doing, um, we did, we did one where we broke down, like the James Kraus betting situation he had all these examples or like the, the Izzy, drickus 2 plus C, um feud, and that goes a long way as well. Um, so I'm very, very thankful and you need people around you that you can trust, who can, who can, get this information and uh, and help you produce, like, the best segments possible. But also, me comes down to storytelling, to explain, explaining to people. Like, if I was going to a coffee shop and I saw my friend, I was like, man, you wouldn't believe the story of Izzy and Drickus and how it culminated, and so how would you tell the story from beginning, middle to end? And you just kind of try to pretend like you're telling a story to people. That's brilliant.
Aaron Pete:The other piece selfishly. I'm wondering if you can offer any advice or if you can offer some insights. On the one hand, I have individuals like yourself who are willing to share your time and you're very busy, you have so many opportunities and then, on the other hand, I'll have individuals who are not very well known, very difficult to book. I'm wondering if you have advice on those cold intros, inviting people on advice for creators looking to say hey, I'd love to have you on the show, I'd love to talk about A, b and C, but I don't have a hundred thousand YouTube followers. I don't have a million subscribers on this. What advice do you have to build that honest rapport with an individual from the outside?
Ariel Helwani:Yeah, it's not easy, like when I did my basketball podcast for Showtime this year. Man, it was humbling because here I am, like I could get Connor McGregor in studio and I could get Izzy in studio, max Holloway in studio, no problem, I could call up anyone. And then I go into basketball and like no one was responding or no one wanted to talk to me, and it was very, very humbling. And so it's not easy. Trust me, I get it. But there was once a time where no one in the MMA world knew who I was and I would go on Myspace and I would send messages to the likes of George St Pierre and Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz and slowly but surely, once I started to build up a resume, a catalog of content, people started to trust me and would come on the show. And so you have to, kind of like, throw out a lot of bait and cast your net very wide and maybe you send out about 20 messages and maybe two people reply but that's great, that's 20%. And then you, you know, one thing that was always very important to me was like, okay, I got them for this interview, but then what about the next interview? And so once I have them for this interview.
Ariel Helwani:I'm always thinking about the next interview and so, like, that's why I don't want, when I booked them on the show, I don't want them on for an hour, because I want the next time that I asked them to come on to be interviewed, I don't want them to say like, oh, this is going to be forever. You know what I mean. So I want to be concise. I don't want to be disrespectful. I have to leave that lasting impression. I want to be thankful. I always reach out afterwards and thank them and all that stuff, and there's like almost like a flow to it now. So, like I'll always reach out to people and then I'll thank them afterwards, I'll send them a text. I really appreciate it, and then they feel the gratitude and then they want to do it again.
Ariel Helwani:But, like, if you're entering a world where no one knows you are, it's not easy. You just have to keep like chipping away, chipping away, reaching out to as many people as possible. If 10% reach back out, great Soon it will be 20%. Then you'll start to develop your reputation and it becomes 30%, 40% and then you're on your way. But you just have to have patience. You have to have strong work ethic. And, very important, don't feel sorry for yourself. It's not an indictment on you. It's not an indication that you're not good or not worthy of their time. It could be a myriad of reasons, but you just have to keep going. Dust yourself off, don't feel sorry for yourself, and good things will start to happen.
Aaron Pete:I'm a student of your style of interviewing and correct me if I'm wrong, but your initial interview. Oftentimes I'll use Lupi Godinez as an example your initial interview is like the back story Her coming from Mexico, moving to Vancouver, that journey, how she got there, the things that her family overcame. And then new interviews are more, highlighting what makes that person unique, unique aspects of their personality or who they are, their fighting style or where they're fighting out of. Am I correct on that? Am I crazy?
Ariel Helwani:First of all, there's a few things that you're not crazy about. But, yes, you're a thousand percent right. It kind of blows my mind that you even pick up on that, even you using words like correct me if I'm wrong. I use that a lot as well. So, yes, I see a lot of similarities, even your tone and your demeanor and your approach to the interviews, very thoughtful and empathetic, which I appreciate very much and, dare I say, reminds me of myself. So kudos and I'm a big fan. But, yes, that's 100%.
Ariel Helwani:If I'm introducing a new character to the audience, I want to learn about them. I want us to get emotionally invested in what they've been through. But I don't have to do that interview the next time. So now, the next time they come on, it's about like what they've just accomplished and where they're going from here and maybe how life has changed since we first met. It's a lot of fun to meet someone for the first time on the show and learn about their background, their trials and tribulations. And now you feel like you're, you know you've developed a rapport, your friends, so to speak, even though you're not friends, but like you just had like a 30 minute coffee with them and you hope that the audience feel the same, and now they want to watch their next fight, and I have no skin in the game, I'm not promoting their next fight, but now you want to get on that journey with them, right? And so then, when you check in with them again, you're well versed into, you know what they've accomplished, where they've been and where they're going.
Aaron Pete:Okay, so this is what you've done to me. I am so emotionally invested in these fighters journeys and I find certain people have such inspirational aspects, like Corey Sandhagin's love for true mixed martial arts, like the genuine passion when you talk to him. I remember exactly I was in SucBC on a vacation with my partner. Listening to that interview. I can never remember exactly where I was because I was like this is so profoundly deep his connection with this sport and he doesn't view it the same way Sean O'Malley is, and they have different perspectives and that's okay, but his mindset is so traditional and protective over the honor and the relationship with self improvement and self development. That was admirable.
Aaron Pete:Then recently you've been talking about Alex Volknoff ski and how he's at the top right now for you because he's just, he does exactly what he says he's going to do and he gets in there and he invests himself 100% and when you, when he says something, you can feel that he really means it, like he's not joking around, he's not saying it to just pump up the fight. He truly believes he's going to go in there and take care of business and then go and fight again come January, which is just incredible. So I'm wondering what do you see inspirational about fighters and what are you able to take from their journeys? Obviously you have a life. How do you take away from what they're going through and learn from their journeys?
Ariel Helwani:Their courage. They possess incredible courage. Imagine devoting three, four months of your life To one singular moment, to fifteen minutes or twenty five minutes. The world is watching. You're essentially naked out there. You can get embarrassed, you get knocked out, you can get injured, or you can change your, your, your fortunes, your life's, you know your trajectory, your, your family's future, all that stuff with this one moment, the immense pressure that they're under the cut, the weight, all that stuff, and that just takes incredible courage.
Ariel Helwani:I don't possess that courage. I don't possess that DNA. I can't do that. I can't devote four months to fifteen minutes. I would crumble under that pressure and so, excuse me, that blows me away. Blows me away that they you know that they're able to do that and then go through it and then want to do it again and then want to do it again and then get knocked out and then want to do it again.
Ariel Helwani:These people are so like again, like I said, I'll be honest, there's so many fights and they all kind of blend in together, but it's the people, it's the characters they can be. These characters are so fascinating and they're so accessible. You know, you talk to athletes from other sports and they just give you you know they give you cliche answers, run in the middle, answers it's very hard to like, see into their souls and truly love them and want to back them and want to learn more about them. There's just something about fighters, maybe because they have to promote themselves, maybe because they're just different kind of cats that you just. You just love them and there's some that you love, there's some that you hate, there's some that you want to see succeed, there's some that you want to see Not succeed. But that's the fun of it.
Ariel Helwani:That's that's why I've always loves combat sport so much, because singular sport and you back your guy or your, your, your, your woman and you want to see them get over them. And when they get over the top, you feel like you just climb the mountain right, like when Leon Edwards did what he did there, probably a legion of people that felt like they, the underdog in life, got to the top. The fight, the odds right, and it's just a beautiful thing. So it's these. These I love. I love how different they all are right. Like you, corey is a great example, corey and Sean are great examples, and then you have, like, a guy like Al Jami and you have a guy like Marab and A guy like Francis is completely different than a guy like Tom Aspinol, who's completely different than a guy like Like.
Ariel Helwani:Leon yeah, I just saw Nia and Max. Like they're just. How could you not be fascinated by these people? They're just absolutely fast. There's no run of the mill, cliche stock answers. Everyone is is more interesting and different, and there are some interviews that are not as good as others, but like, look at Mike Perry, like what a character that guy is. Like where does that guy exist in any other walk of life and we get to just talk to him all the time? It's it's a tremendous privilege.
Aaron Pete:Would you say that the depth of how fighters think about things is increasing? Because obviously I haven't followed the sport for as long as you have, but when you interview Israel to sign, it is incredible to hear how he thinks about things, how he sits with things, his process for going through a loss, how he overcomes it. Like that person just seems to get deeper. And then we start talking about Alex, and all these people have like a depth to them that I don't know. Maybe it always existed. What's your thoughts on that?
Ariel Helwani:No, I mean, you're 100% right, and there are some fighters who are a little more thoughtful, like is he is a very thoughtful guy. So one thing that I love that he does when, when you ask him a question, he goes, hmm, good question, and then you could tell that he's actually like thinking about it. Eugene Bairman is head coach does that as well. Like you ask him a question, he'll give you like this dramatic pause For 10 seconds and really think about the answer. I love that stuff. I can't get enough. Like that is like drugs to me.
Ariel Helwani:You know, like there, if I could sit there and talk to people like that and you feel like you're getting something out of them and you feel like you're challenging them and you feel like you're asking good questions and it's not just running the mill stuff. There's nothing better. And I love asking about like their feelings and their anxieties and their nerves and their doubt. I love that because a lot of fighters have that, they possess that, but then they're able to overcome it, like when I hear that GSP, you know, would get so nervous that he would throw up before his fights and he would look at himself in the mirror and say like you're, you're not worthy of this, you're not good enough. What the hell are you doing here? And then you go out and perform the way in which he did that blows my mind like that.
Ariel Helwani:That shows that we can accomplish anything and that you can beat your mind. So it's yeah, it's all very inspiring and ultimately, we're talking to fighters who go into a cage for the most part of a ring fight each other. But these are things that could be applied to everyday life and you can. You can, you can derive inspiration from the way they live their lives and the discipline that they, you know, they, they, they have in their lives. It's, it's all very impressive. If you ask me, I couldn't agree more.
Aaron Pete:One of the other pieces that I find truly admirable about your work is that you do a tremendous job balancing lighthearted sports and that world with the realities of the world and the challenges we face, and I think we all have a responsibility to stay informed on current events and the issues that we're facing and contribute where appropriate and try and support the world moving in a more positive, safe direction. But we also do need those escapes and I'm wondering if you could talk about how you go about making sure we find that balance.
Ariel Helwani:Yeah, you know it's, it's tough and I try not to use my show as like some sort of soapbox to talk about other things. I recognize that people are coming to me for an escape and you know they want to hear about sports, they want to hear about MMA, combat, whatever. There are sometimes where it feels insensitive or it just feels very unimportant talking about these other things. So I have to get things off my chest because I'm an emotional guy. But you know it's, it's just. It's just a matter of not taking yourself too seriously, understanding what your role is in all this. I understand that I'm not. You know I'm not. I'm not a like a. I'm not a guy who's on CNN or Fox News or something like that, like reporting on. Howard Cosell once said that we're, you know, the people in the that are in the sports newsroom. They work in the, the toy department of the newsroom, meaning like we get to do the fun stuff. So I try not to take it too seriously and obviously it means a lot to the fighters and the athletes and this is kind of like do or die, life or death stuff for them. But when it comes to us like this, is this what I get to do and what I get to talk about is everyone's like fun thing in life. Like there are people who work nine to five jobs Monday through Friday and they look forward to Saturday night to watch the UFC. That's their escape, that's my job. I sometimes would be like, damn, this is even I wanted to go out with my family or something like that, but that's, that's their fun thing. Like that's their escape and I have to remember that.
Ariel Helwani:And so, yes, sometimes when you know heavy duty series, stuff happens. I would hope that people would understand why I'd want to get some stuff off my chest. But I try not to abuse that and go down that route so often. You know, sometimes on the show, like when I'm asked questions about other things, I'm very happy to go down different paths and perhaps in time the show is going to evolve. I think it is going to evolve to a point where, like, we won't be boxed in by any parameters. But I think I do a pretty good job now of bouncing it all and typically staying on track. I know sometimes the fans get mad if I have like a boxer pro wrestler on, but to me this is all like part of my you know crazy combat world in my mind and I would like to think that it doesn't really matter what these people are doing. If they're interesting people, the audience will be interested in them as well.
Aaron Pete:Yeah, and I also think sports bring us together, and when we have political divides, this is a space where we can start to come back together and share common ground again. My final question, and I appreciate you so much for being willing to take the time to do this interview. It's another thing I do all the time too. It's a good you know, you know, I do.
Ariel Helwani:I do that all the time. I want to be mindful of your time.
Aaron Pete:Look at my background just went out how about that.
Ariel Helwani:It's very exciting.
Aaron Pete:It's always changing. Is your?
Aaron Pete:you talked about how you're not a fighter, but I find you to be also incredibly courageous. You started a show from nothing, from no subscribers, and I find that to be really admirable. As someone who's trying to do that myself, I look at your journey and go wow that he's shown a pathway, a journey where you don't have some big name and you're going into the podcast world and you're bringing all those followers with you. I'm wondering if you can just talk about the resilience you've shown throughout your career, your willingness to get knocked down and get back up, because I take a lot away from that journey and I think it's so important that we recognize you for that as well.
Ariel Helwani:Well, I appreciate that. I would not compare it to what the fighters go through, but yeah, obviously there's been a lot of ups and downs and the one thing that I've always tried to remind myself is like you only get one life and if you're going to let other people, you know, define your journey and decide where you're going to go, then you're only doing a disservice to yourself. And so if someone's going to be a roadblock, if someone's going to try to deter you, if someone's going to try to change your trajectory or something like that, you know who cares? Just dust yourself off, get back up, keep on fighting. I just I don't know. I don't know if it's something inside of me, I don't know if it's just the way I'm wired, like I just I never wanted to let other people decide what was going to be my destiny. And obviously there's been some twists and turns and things that you don't expect initially and all that stuff, but I just never felt sorry for myself, even when, like things were really really bad.
Ariel Helwani:Don't feel sorry for yourself. It's okay to lick your wounds for a second, but get back out there and every single time that it seems like something's been thrown my way, a curveball, whatever. I just I feel like I almost like I hulk up and I become even more, you know, courageous and I want to even fight back more. Like it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like PDs. For me it's a bizarre thing and so I enjoy that.
Ariel Helwani:And you know, I know that there's some people who try to take advantage of that and push you up against a wall and try to, you know, make you doubt yourself and all this stuff. But it comes out to two things Remembering that we only get one life. You never want to be 80 years old looking back and saying, man, you know, I should have done this, I should have done that. I regret this, I regret that that's number one. And number two just don't feel sorry for yourself, because ultimately, no one feels sorry for you.
Ariel Helwani:There's people rooting against you. There's people who want to see you, you know, falter, rooting for your demise. Who cares? Screw those people, dust yourself off, get back out there, because for every person that's rooting against you, there's more than likely 10, 20, 30, 100 people who are rooting for you. And it's very important to you know to prove those people right and to prove the others wrong. So, yeah, that's just always been my approach and you know, life is a funny journey and there's always ups and downs. But if you accept that and you're ready for that, I think that you can. You know you can conquer anything.
Aaron Pete:Ladies and gentlemen, ariel Hoani not just the man in MMA journalism, he's taking over combat sports. He's taking over sports journalism generally. I can't thank you enough for being willing to do this so motivational. I need to get to the gym and go work out after an interview like this.
Ariel Helwani:Well, I appreciate it very much. Keep up the great work. Great questions, great research, great demeanor, great everything. And, like I said to you, I think one time you're so positive, see your tweets. I see the way you interact with people and it's very, very impressive, and Lord knows, we need more people like you, not only in media, but in this world. So kudos to you, my friend, for the way in which you live your life and how you conduct yourself. It's very impressive, especially for such a young man. I wish you nothing but the best and great success, and it was an honor for me to be on your show.
Aaron Pete:Well, I can't thank you enough. Go follow him on Twitter, follow him on YouTube. He is putting out amazing content, so motivational, and I just I'm so grateful, thank you.