Canadian journalist Vassy Kapelos joins Aaron Pete to discuss her path into journalism, passion for politics, the importance of balanced reporting, and her expertise in navigating challenging interviews with political figures.
Vassy Kapelos, based in Ottawa, is currently hosting CTV's "Question Period," "Power Play," and the national radio program "The Vassy Kapelos Show" on iHeartRadio Canada. With a career highlighted by multiple awards including two Canadian Screen Awards, she has extensive experience in political coverage, having previously hosted CBC's "Power & Politics" and served as Global News’ Ottawa Bureau Chief.
Canadian journalist Vassy Kapelos joins Aaron Pete to discuss her path into journalism, passion for politics, the importance of balanced reporting, and her expertise in navigating challenging interviews with political figures.
Vassy Kapelos, based in Ottawa, is currently hosting CTV's "Question Period," "Power Play," and the national radio program "The Vassy Kapelos Show" on iHeartRadio Canada. With a career highlighted by multiple awards including two Canadian Screen Awards, she has extensive experience in political coverage, having previously hosted CBC's "Power & Politics" and served as Global News’ Ottawa Bureau Chief.
Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger than Me podcast. Here is your host, aaron. I am a huge fan of the interview process and asking tough questions, and I remain a student of the game, trying to understand how people approach this. Today I have the privilege of speaking with the host of CTV Powerplay and Question Period and the host of a daily show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Vashi Capellos. Vashi, it is such an honor to be sitting down with you today. I am so excited. I find that I learned so much from individuals like yourself who are specialists at the work they do. But would you mind first just introducing yourself to the listeners Of course.
Vassy Kapelos:Thank you so much for having me. First of all, I'm really excited to be with you. My name is Vashi Capellos. I host a couple of shows on CTV where I kind of serve as the chief political correspondent, so those shows are entirely political in nature. And then I also host a radio show on the iHeartRadio talk network across the country every day two hours in the middle of the day, which is a bit more broad. So it has a lot of politics, but it also has a bunch of other stuff as well. And yeah, that's it.
Aaron Pete:Would you mind taking us back to your origin story? When did you start to become interested in politics, the political process more broadly?
Vassy Kapelos:So I sort of joked that I came by it genetically or by birth, because my parents met at a political convention years and years ago. My dad actually ran in politics at one point unsuccessfully, but ran and so I sort of was born into an environment in which politics was just a part of life and talking about politics was a part of life. So by the time that I was born my parents were not politically active, but they were certainly politically interested and inclined and, more broadly, beyond just politics, super interested in current events and news. We had multiple newspapers Newspapers are still a big thing then delivered to our house every day, even more on a Sunday, for example, in Toronto, in the neighborhood I grew up in, and they just talked about it a lot and so I sort of absorbed it, I think by osmosis that way.
Vassy Kapelos:And then as I became more aware of what's going on and I started reading the paper myself at a kind of embarrassingly young age and sort of being interested in various leadership, elections, and I remember watching on TV with my parents and then elections, elections, like it just sort of I grew up with it as a part of who I am and so when I was starting to think about, like what do I want to do with my life and what do I enjoy? I was in such a privileged position to be able to think about my career path based on my passion or the things that I like in my life or that I'm interested in, and so it just sort of eventually seemed like a natural fit.
Aaron Pete:It's funny that you say that, because I too actually with a friend, we would read the newspaper in middle school and talk about the issues and what was going on, but in school we were actually considered the kind of the far behind students, the people who weren't doing as well in school. We were put in the dumb class of not being able to put our best foot forward, and so it's just interesting to see that you can have an interest or a passion that doesn't always get highlighted in school. But I'm curious as to what you would say to individuals who aren't interested in the political process. I think when cost of living becomes a topic, more people get a little bit more engaged and care a little bit more. But what would you say to those individuals who've just never seen themselves interested in the political process?
Vassy Kapelos:That's such a great point that what underscores, I think, our interest and engagement in politics is often the degree to which it impacts our life. It's why often when you cover municipal politics which I did at the beginning of my career it's an easier sell if that makes sense, like on a local newscast. You don't have to fight very hard to get your story near the top of the show If it's about something that's happening with potholes or garbage collection or hospitals even, and schools, because that stuff is so tangible to our everyday experience. But when you brought it out to federal politics, I think it becomes a lot harder to make that connection, but it's there. An example I would use is during the pandemic.
Vassy Kapelos:It was probably the time in my life when it felt most punctuated that what the government does can affect your everyday life.
Vassy Kapelos:And I would even remove let's take the health stuff off the table for a second just like the businesses that were going to go broke or had to close their doors or, when they opened up, didn't know what to do or didn't have the money or the capital to be able to withstand it.
Vassy Kapelos:Like the people who lost their jobs or had to stay home, and they would bring their concerns so directly to me through emails and social media and everything you can imagine, and then that night I would have the federal minister that oversees that portfolio on the show and I really felt like people could see, and I could certainly see the connection between what the federal government was doing and the way in which it impacted your at that time, your very existence, both financially and otherwise, and so I think it's my job to make sure people who do feel less inclined to be engaged understand the degree to which stuff that happens here impacts their life and maybe it's not in the immediacy, but it certainly will be in the medium to long term. And if they don't feel it, then I'm not really doing my job.
Aaron Pete:If politics was always in your genetics, I'm curious as to what led you down the path of holding power accountable rather than going down the political path and finding a political career of your own.
Vassy Kapelos:Well, there's a couple of things that factored into it, I think I always, like I took politics in my undergrad and I didn't really know. I sort of thought, oh just, my dad's a lawyer and, you know, has worked his whole life, loves his career, and I thought maybe that's something that I'll do. But I didn't really feel totally convinced. I remember I went to like an arson trial he was at when I was a teenager and I couldn't believe the degree to which someone's entire fate was in my dad's hands and I was like, how do you even sleep at night? And I could see why he was stressed out all the time and it seemed like a really difficult thing. I just wasn't 100% sure and in the back of my mind I had always consumed so much news, both on TV and in newspapers, that I knew I had an interest in it. I had an aunt that did it as a profession as well, but, like always from a distance, you know, I always felt like it was something only a certain type of person could succeed at. That the odds are kind of against you. I wasn't. I didn't know if I could really be that risk kind of, take that kind of risk, and my mom actually got sick in the middle of my schooling, so I had done my undergrad and masters and just finished and she, she was diagnosed with cancer. And I don't know what, it sort of changed my view on a lot of things. I don't really know why, but it imparted a sense on me of, like, what do I have to lose? We all have a certain time here. And it just impacted me in kind of a very real way. And so I thought you know what, like if I'm being honest, I want to take this risk, like I want to give it a shot, and I don't think it's the worst thing in the world if it's not successful, if I don't. You know, there are worse things, for example, like my mom getting sick, and also we only have a certain amount of time.
Vassy Kapelos:I think, as I said here, I got to like make the most of it. And so that prompted me to just do a little bit of searching. I found that there was a program at a college near where I lived that was geared toward people who already had a degree and was very, like, sort of technical and practical, and it was over a four month period. I did it. I was very clearly told you're going to have to move somewhere small if you really want to. You know, make a go of it. I accepted that. I was single at the time. I had no kids. I was like, why not? And? And that's what happened. Within a few weeks, actually, I applied and got a job in Swift Currents, saskatchewan, and I never really look back.
Aaron Pete:What makes a good journalist in your opinion?
Vassy Kapelos:Well, that's a very subjective question.
Vassy Kapelos:That's a really good question as well, I think somebody who tries very hard with you know nobody's perfect to be accurate, to be informative and to be free of bias and to be really curious.
Vassy Kapelos:I think you need to have sort of an innate sense of curiosity about why people do the things that they do, about what could happen in the future, about how we organize ourselves as a society. Like you got to be the person that read the paper all the time because you wanted to know what was going on in the world and you have to feel like it's important that people do know what's going on in the world. I get it that it's heavy and sometimes people are like I can't watch the news. But really we only can improve the world if we understand the problems that are present today or the issues that have happened in history, not to dismiss what's happened but to learn from it and get better to avoid those problems again. So I think you have to be really curious about that. You have to have a really big appetite for what's going on in the world and, like I said, you have to be like you have to be intent and laser-like, focused on being if you're a political journalist in particular free of bias and accurate.
Aaron Pete:Who were some of your inspirations or role models or people you looked up to?
Vassy Kapelos:That's a good question too, I think. I mean I've always consumed a lot of media south of the border and I really liked. I mean I always looked up to my aunt. Her name is Thalia Asheris. She's my dad's first cousin actually. She was a reporter in Canada and a host for a long time and then moved over to the States and worked for a couple big networks. She's gone to like a million war zones and she certainly seemed to love what she did and she was one of those people who is she is still alive. Obviously, this doesn't work in the field, but she's very committed to accuracy and to sort of like the what I would characterize as like the old school principles of journalism.
Vassy Kapelos:I think in a Canadian context I've been I don't know if I really ever looked up and thought, oh, that's what I want to do, but I did consume a lot of it all of the big nightly newscasts, for example, and a lot of the morning shows. And I think, as I actually entered the business, I've been beyond fortunate to have had some of the most amazing mentors, people that I looked up to, who I looked up to, for example, tom Clark, who has, honest to goodness, I would not be where I am without not only his guidance, but like his encouragement. He always made me feel, from the day that I was in Edmonton and like, beg my boss to put me in a room with him that the sky was the limit for my potential. And sometimes when somebody else believes in you, when you're at a stage in your life where you don't really have the capacity to believe that's possible for yourself, it's like all you need.
Vassy Kapelos:And he was really that person for me and he's now moved on. He's like the console general in New York City, but he's a wonderful journalist that always, like I could call and be like how do I go about this? What do I do? And then also just like the encouragement that he provided me even in really rough times, and so he's certainly someone I looked up to. He's gone a-freeze and over at Global was amazing to me as well. I mean, I've had so many countless mentors in this business. I've been so lucky you hear horror stories in every industry, right, I've really had bosses along the way Rob Russo at CBC like people who took a vested interest in my success and without whom I can guarantee like I would never have attained what I have or be able to have these kinds of opportunities without.
Aaron Pete:You mentioned the old school rules of journalism. Would you just mind elaborating a little bit on what that is?
Vassy Kapelos:I mean like getting the story right, I mean like telling it without bias. I'm sort of the way that we used to expect it to be straight down the middle, and I don't mean that I don't equate that with both sizing everything and equal, you know, giving equal weight to everybody. I mean just this sort of like the kind of journalism that leaves you with the impression the person reporting does not come at it with an agenda, and I'm not accusing people of doing that right now, but I think that certainly there is an overall impression to that effect and I feel like it was less so there before social media, before everybody could see our thoughts on everything, our retweets, things like that. And I love that kind of journalism, I think it serves a real purpose and I feel like my aunt really exemplified it.
Aaron Pete:This is one area I actually have just a specific question. That's a bit of a tangent, but I'm a really big believer in this concept of steelmaning positions. And so you may have your biases or your perspectives, but to really put yourself in the shoes of the person you disagree with most with the policy, you can't stand and really go through the tenets of why that might be correct and then just at least acknowledge and give it its due, rather than looking at the strawman positions and going to the talking points and really figuring out what the argument is for and what it is against. And I find that that's an intellectual exercise. It's a lot of work for people and so not everybody wants to do that, but I find the people I find the most admirable are always working to at least understand. They may not agree, but to comprehend where the arguments are on the other side and have a wholesome understanding. So if they get into a disagreement they can at least validate why that person thinks what they think.
Vassy Kapelos:I think that's awesome that you do that. I think it's become even harder right now when we spend so much of our time on social media platforms that have an algorithm that works in the exact opposite way, that has an algorithm that reinforces your point of view, and I actually think it's one of the biggest contributors to why it feels so polarized, because when I meet people in person, they aren't like that. There are so many people who are willing to engage, even in debates that I have on my show, for example, of MPs of all kinds. They're shaking hands before, they're shaking hands after. It's not a bloody fight to the death. I think that sort of silo, that way of living in silos, exists, but I do think it's just being amplified and reinforced to such an incredible degree by social media. And I also think just in that vein, that's why it's been so important for me to have worked in other parts of the country, particularly if I want to be like a national host or a national reporter.
Vassy Kapelos:I grew up in downtown Toronto something, by the way, I didn't talk a lot about when I lived in all those other places, but there was through. It's not on purpose, but you grow up with a bit of an ignorance about the rest of the country, because there's so much in Toronto that consumes you and it's an amazing city. But I'm so happy I lived in Alberta. I'm so happy I lived in Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia and other parts of Ontario because I think that it truly has allowed me to not be dismissive of things that you might inherently be dismissive of, and try very hard to put myself in the shoes of people who have a completely different experience growing up in this country than I did.
Aaron Pete:That would probably be one of my most important things. If I'm thinking about what I value in a journalist is exactly what you just described. But there's also steps along your career path that are standout moments and I'm wondering if you can talk about Premier Allison Redford and that journey and how that story developed.
Vassy Kapelos:Well, I think my work in Alberta is certainly where, if I look back now I hope I became the reporter that I wanted to be or that I ended up being, and by that I mean it's the place where I ended up being able to exclusively focus on politics. So I went into this job knowing that's what I wanted my Ed goal to be. I wanted to basically be the host of Meet the Press in Canada and I remember my first boss said to me you shouldn't really have such a specific goal. You're kind of setting yourself up for disappointment, which at the time was fairly crashing, but not crashing enough to prevent me from it. And somehow I weaseled my way through my initial jobs into Edmonton. And where I worked in Edmonton was Global Edmonton, which is like a powerhouse local station highly consumed by everyone who lives in Edmonton, and there, after a little while kind of covering the night bead and stuff like that, I became the legislative reporter and then the provincial affairs reporter and my goodness, what an opportunity that was at a time.
Vassy Kapelos:In Alberta politics that was like wow, everybody had told me when I went there. Really is that exciting politics. They've had the same party and government for four decades. And basically I came as that was starting to come to an end or now, when we look back, at least you can see that was coming to an end and I really just like cut my cut my chops, I guess, or cut my teeth on the political scene. There I was it.
Vassy Kapelos:I was the only reporter. I stayed there every day. I learned how to ask questions, I learned how to develop sources and relationships that would allow me to get scoops, and I learned how to break news, which is a huge part of what you end up doing, particularly as a political reporter, and one of the stories I broke was around a severance that I think Alison Redford had provided to her chief of staff both very well known political figures now and I did it through access to information, another skill that I learned while I was there, and it ended up being kind of one of the bigger stories that I broke in Alberta, but it was more just like a. It was more emblematic of all that I learned covering politics in that province, and it's also the moment where, like that whole period of my life, was where I knew for certain this was what I was meant to do and that I was so happy that this had ended up being my career, like there were all the little doubts I had dissipated completely.
Aaron Pete:There's so many pieces to being a great journalist. One of them is creating a story, getting those sources of writing it, telling it clearly so people can understand a complex topic. That's kind of synthesized for people to be able to understand easily. The other piece is interviewing people and that's a process where you have to be able to ask follow up questions. When did you start to develop that skill set and understand what makes a great interview?
Vassy Kapelos:Another great question because, you're right, they are sort of not the most related skill sets. There's a whole number of skills that go into creating a two minute story on a Nightly Newscast exactly the ones that you laid out, that you kind of over time come to perfect right. Took me like 10 years, I think, to get kind of good at that. I don't even know if I'd say good, but like to feel really comfortable and be able to get a story together fast, be good at the editing process, all that kind of stuff. And then hosting was something that, as I said, I always had like that goal out there. But I didn't know exactly how I was going to get there. And so initially again, tom Clark, who was host of the Sunday weekly political show at Global and a champion of mine when he was going away, kind of said hey guys, why don't you have Vashi fill in? And so that was the beginning of it. I mean, if I watched my initial fill ins now I would probably be horrified. I had.
Vassy Kapelos:No, it takes a really long time to feel comfortable in the way you're going to govern yourself as a host and I would say, to be honest with you, I don't think I felt super comfortable in that until when I came back from my mat leave just a few years ago. It was a really yeah, just it was a really hard process, kind of tuning out the outside criticism and voices either bad or good and just relying on my gut. It was not something that was like instinctual. It actually came over time that I started to feel really comfortable in the way in which I conducted those interviews and really sure of everything I wanted to do in them. And ever since that switch happened which I've actually never even really reflected on it ever since that switch happened, it's like it's like a habit for me. Now it's not, I don't think I. It's not like a stress, it's not. It feels much more natural, I guess is the way to put it. But it took a really long time.
Aaron Pete:What were some of the things that you felt like we're preventing you from feeling that comfort In the process, because you're in a unique such situation, as I imagine. There are people behind the cameras watching and observing and I'm just, for the most part, alone. So that, coupled with social media and this going out to the globe, what was that process like and what were some of the standout challenges?
Vassy Kapelos:Yeah, I think you've laid it out really well. I think that it was difficult to, like I said, sort of tune stuff out and that's not to say tune at all criticism, because goodness knows I deserved it and and continue to but To sort of be able to filter out what's valid and what isn't, and what I can improve on and what's just kind of noise. I think I really struggled with that, even like stupid things like how I looked or how I sounded, and it was just so sudden for me because when I worked at global, I had hosted the Sunday show there for a while and the viewers were incredibly used to me because I'd been on global for 10 years in other capacities, but like nobody had ever heard of me at CDC and it was a totally different audience and I just sort of always felt a little bit out of place. I don't. I don't know why, like people who are there have been there for so long and there's so much.
Vassy Kapelos:It's part of their identity and I get that because I sort of had it at global for a long time and so it's just this like, like this feeling of discomfort almost, and maybe that translated into what I was like on air or how I felt, or you could like almost smell the doubt or something like that, and it almost felt at times like I had to fake it, you know, like I had to fake that I was confident enough or that I wasn't worried about x, y or z.
Vassy Kapelos:And then, like I said, like something really, I mean, while I was pregnant I was really sick and that started to make things better as well if that sounds weird like I was Incredibly ill, so I was less. I was so just trying to get through things that I started I stopped being as worried about how I was being perceived and so that was maybe like stage one. Then I went to mat leave and then when I came back, I don't know, I can't even pinpoint what exactly changed, but I was like I don't know. Since then I just have had no issues with that kind of thing.
Aaron Pete:Can I ask was that your first child being born during that period?
Vassy Kapelos:Yeah, it's my first of my only, because I was 40 when I gave birth and it was IVF, so he was like a miracle. I had only two. I mean this is very detailed. Hopefully, I only had two embryos and, like it was just, I was just the one shot, basically, and so he's a total miracle. And, yeah, it's my first time I have two step kids who are older, who have been in my life for a really long time, but he's my first kid of my own, so maybe it's the first time also since I started my career that I took a beat, like I took eight months off to be with my son and I, I don't know, I just came back like maybe with the perspective that my entire identity was no longer wrapped up in my success in my career or lack thereof, and Maybe that was a bit freeing, if I, if I think about it now, and it sort of continues to be, if that makes sense.
Aaron Pete:That's beautiful. Yeah, I was going to ask whether or not just an understanding of this, this child's Viewpoint of me, matters much more than those people over there. Those people over there like this is what really matters in life.
Vassy Kapelos:Yeah, I think so, and it's funny because my mom actually ended up passing away and for a long time I had that perspective after her passing, like it was very hard to just sort of even Think am I gonna care about my job anymore, am I even gonna care about being successful or how much money I make or anything, because it felt impossible for for years after she passed away.
Vassy Kapelos:But I don't know if this is the case with other people who lose people who are close to them. Eventually it dissipates and you can return to some of the, the things that were normal before and your view of the world before, and you get caught up in the little things again. And I think you're right that, basically taking a beat and taking some time away and focusing on Someone else and their well-being versus just my own success and my team success and all that stuff. Then maybe it sort of acted in the same way in a weird way as as my mom's passing. I've just been able to carry that through much longer, but that's probably because my son's in my life all the time and and like doesn't care about my job in the least.
Aaron Pete:Well, I'm very grateful you were willing to share that. The other piece around journalism that I think gets unspoken but is very noticed by people when it doesn't take place is the importance of the follow-up. And the follow-up is so crucial. But, as a host, I don't think listeners or viewers understand how uncomfortable or how challenging those follow-ups can be for people. I invite people to come in studio. They've taken time out of their day to have a conversation with me.
Aaron Pete:I'm grateful, but I'm gonna ask some tough questions and then I'm going to follow up if I don't get what I believe is a more honest or authentic or genuine answer. And that's a process to me as a host that you go through because you're you're so grateful for the time, but you're also responsible to the listeners and the viewers with what you do with that time. And you are a person I find the most admirable when it comes to the follow-ups and the challenges, because you're incredibly Respectful, you're incredibly kind to the person saying like with all due respect, I have to challenge you and hear some statistics that go completely against the claim you just made. When did you start to develop that and was that a challenge to get comfortable asking the follow-ups?
Vassy Kapelos:I Started to develop it pretty early on at at CBC and through my time there became much more comfortable with it and I think I'm not uncomfortable with it at all.
Vassy Kapelos:I I actually think it's like a necessity of my job and it's the thing I hear from most, from people who watch and listen. They're just like I'm so glad you didn't just let that go. It's a balancing act, like there's only so much, so many follow-ups you can ask before the. You know, when you're gut at this point after this long of doing it, that the audience kind of turns away. But there's a, there's a sweet spot right where you can ask follow-ups, challenge the assertions that are being made and also Maybe even sometimes more importantly in a political sphere, point out when there isn't an answer being provided, which I think you can again do very politely and respectfully. But I know that's what the audience is thinking they're not answering your question because I hear it all the time and so sometimes it's Important as important as kind of grilling them or following up on things to just point out like that isn't actually answering what I asked you.
Aaron Pete:Is that uncomfortable or at all? Because I think about some of the people they're. They're being invited on to your show, they're being invited on to speak to thousands and thousands of people and I'm just thinking about, like in those moments where you know they're lying or you know that they're bending the truth to a point where it's almost unethical or irresponsible, and like I'm just curious, as the host, how you process that, having that go on and then you're like I have to follow up and sometimes you might not always be able to prep or prepare For them, taking it off track or trying to bend to the truth.
Vassy Kapelos:I mean, the first rule I think, of any good host at this point is you have to be ready to, like you go in with an idea here's what I want to do, here's the stuff they might say what facts do I need armed with so that I can challenge them? But you need to be prepared to completely throw it out. Like the most important thing to do is listen To what they say in response and then, if you've got to go somewhere else, you go somewhere else. And to your question around, like the level of comfort I have. I think like the political sphere Imparts a bit of a different calculation there, and by that I mean like they signed up for this.
Vassy Kapelos:They are accountable to Canadians, they know it's a part of their job. So I'm happy that they come on, I'm grateful of them to make time for it, but overall, like this is what they should be doing. I I firmly kind of believe that, and not necessarily with me, but just the sort of overall function of accountability, and so I have no Quams about following up. I don't ever really feel uncomfortable about it and I would feel much worse if, if I didn't and just let them kind of get away with not answering or Not. I mean, I've don't encounter too many lies, but certainly, like you know, saying things that are spun, big time spun.
Aaron Pete:What is your favorite type of interview? You have a different, a couple different format styles. What's your favorite style?
Vassy Kapelos:So I love accountability. There's nothing I love more than you know somebody from some political party be it a minister or from a different from the opposition, coming on to you know, talk on a certain policy or our perspective that they have, and you know. Eight to ten minutes of accountability, that's like my bread and butter by a million miles. That's my favorite thing.
Aaron Pete:Fascinating. I'm going to get a little bit more into the politics with a few more questions. And we were listening to one of your interviews and it was with leader Steve McKinnon and it just brought up a lot of questions for me in the process. First, I'm curious as to your perspective on party whips.
Vassy Kapelos:I so he's the yeah, he's the government house leader and he used to be the party whip, and now he's being replaced as the party whip. And I'm sure the reason you're asking is because it all relates to this rogue liberal MP who said these wild things about the prime minister and his best before date and then also talked about, for example, then, 24 hours later, saying I never said a leadership review. After saying leadership review. So I mean, party whips are like a function of our democracy. They are reflective, though, of something that maybe is a broader conversation, which is the degree to which politicians have to adhere to a party philosophy, right, the degree to which they all have to fall in line.
Vassy Kapelos:Clearly, the whip spoke to this gentleman, ken McDonald. They won't tell us what they told him to do, or what they threatened or everything, but, lo and behold, after that conversation he came out saying, hey, I'm not calling for a leadership review. So I understand the function of it. Certainly, from a party perspective, I'm not like a polyamor, but I also get it when we you know, there are other countries, for example, even other parliamentary democracies I'm thinking of the UK where they're not as restrictive when it comes to that process. Now that could mean a lot more turmoil, but at the same time you might actually hear what people think more frequently.
Aaron Pete:That's what I was wondering is just the process of wanting authenticity in an interview, wanting the honest answers, and then being able to see liberal MP Ken McDonald give honest answers and we finally get some fresh perspectives and something that surprises everybody, and then seeing them be required to walk it back and we can agree that likely party whip met with this person but to not get that authenticity of knowing that that happened seems somewhat disingenuous. I understand it's a part of the system, but just from our role of asking these questions it just seems frustrating to me.
Vassy Kapelos:Yeah, that's a really good point. I can see why that would be the case. I think I'm just so used to being around it that maybe it didn't. You know what I mean. It doesn't stick out to me in the same way. I would be shocked. I mean, very infrequently do politicians, in particular the government, say here's what we talked about behind the scenes and here's how I forced them to do it. Like that's just, that wouldn't really happen anywhere. But I do get the point that like it's curious the way in which that all unfolded and nobody's really too transparent about it.
Aaron Pete:But that's what I find so valuable about your show is you very clearly laid it out of like this is what they said yesterday and this is what they're saying today.
Aaron Pete:How crazy is it that in any if you were in your job place, you would not accept those terms and conditions? Yet in politics, we seem to accept somewhat different rules. The other one that I wanted to ask just your general perspective of is how leaders and politicians change who they are in order to better reflect to the population in a way that is more receptive, and again, it's part of the process. I'm not calling any one person out, but seeing Pierre Paulyev take off the glasses, switch the haircut, switch the clothing style to come across more relatable, and then watching Justin Trudeau, as you kind of described, go through a gambit of different topics to see which ones are going to resonate, is like if you did that at your workplace, if you did that when you're working at a bakery, none of that would be acceptable. Yet we accept certain strange rules for these individuals and I'm just curious how you process that.
Vassy Kapelos:Yeah, that's another great question.
Vassy Kapelos:I think that I'm just so used to politics being a different world in a way, and even when you kind of look at the way it is here relative to the US or other places like it's so hard now to tell what will resonate, what will take the glasses off make a difference, like what we hear, what we do from the former president in the United States Like I have no idea how to judge that stuff anymore.
Vassy Kapelos:But I think, like in the Canadian context, the way in which those leaders communicate, the way in which they appear, the people who surround them, all of that ultimately contributes to the impression that forms among Canadians. And that's just the way it is, because you and I might be paying attention in a really granular way outside of the election cycle, but most Canadians wait until an election campaign to look that closely, and so you're competing essentially for the creation of an impression on the periphery. And so those things like the off-hand things you say, or the style, the ads, the ad buys, things like that they are the things that will really leave an impact on Canadians who are not acting the way they would perhaps in a campaign when they're paying attention to every little policy decision that you make.
Aaron Pete:Right. I think part of the reason that I pay so close attention is because I'm a politician myself. I'm on council for my First Nation community, so I'm constantly thinking about what did I say leading into it and how am I delivering for them, and is there something I could be doing better? And I want every politician to approach it that way. I have some crazy beliefs. I don't think politicians should really make a living wage in their role.
Aaron Pete:I go back to the way things used to be, which was we used to choose the greatest people in our community, in our culture, in our society, and have them take the lead, not for the financial gain, but because we know that they have something to contribute in the guiding of our culture and within Indigenous communities. We would look to those people who could leave things better for the next seven generations, not because it was a profitable approach to take and because they were taken care of and there'd be new opportunities. So when I hear Justin Trudeau may want to resign now because there'll be more financial opportunities if he resigns now and the doors might stay open for him, that's like but that's not why you're there. You're there to serve at the behest of the community that you agreed to. So, like just, I get very philosophical about it and perhaps I wouldn't be a good job at holding power to account because I have some of these naive philosophies that don't actually act out in the culture.
Vassy Kapelos:They're not naive. I think that you want politicians to be in it for the right reasons and to better society through the work that they do, and I actually am maybe going to respond to that by saying I think most of them are. I'm not a cynic, and I say that because I have engaged in so many conversations outside of my job with people from all political stripes who have big ideas about things and who initially came here really certainly for the right reasons. I think that the media environment, the social media environment in particular, brings out the worst in everybody, and so we're left with an impression that runs very counter to that. But I have to honestly say my own perception, my own interactions, my own experience, is not really in that vein.
Vassy Kapelos:They may be somewhat motivated like all of us are, if we're being honest by our own ambition, our own egos, but I think that the majority of them balance that out by wanting to do good. Now, does that always happen? No, I'm not sure if they're in it for the money. I think like there's good money be made, but not great money compared to a lot of the things they could be doing outside of politics. But as for their motivation, I'm like I am. It's gonna sound weird as like a person who grills them all the time, but I actually think a lot of them are in it for the right reasons.
Aaron Pete:I'm very happy to hear that. As somebody who covers them, I think you have to be able to understand their perspectives as well. The other piece is just around youth, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are. Are we constantly here that youth are less engaged, and I'm wondering if there's something to be done about that or if you have any perspectives on that?
Vassy Kapelos:I sort of have a split perspective on that. Living with two I live with. My 18-year-old stepdaughter just started university. I have a 13-year-old stepson. I don't know if they are as unengaged as we might think that they are, and I don't know if this is your experience as well. I think they maybe are engaged in ways that we aren't used to or familiar with, but I think that they have a real interest in justice in the world, for example, in inequality in the world. They are very interested in climate change. Like this is my experience, obviously, with my stepkids and their circle of friends. But my stepdaughter went into environmental geography because she is so passionate about trying to be part of the solution to mitigate the impacts of climate change.
Vassy Kapelos:Now does that translate into reading a newspaper every day, like I did growing up? No, my worry is this is where the split comes from. Me is that most of what she and her brother and people their age consume comes from something like TikTok and when I go on that platform, let's say, for just one example, with them, there's a lot of false information there and they don't necessarily know that it is false. There's a lot of stuff that's presented there that is actually blatantly false and facts that are presented as facts that are not, and so I'm eagerly like that's not true, and here's why that's not true.
Vassy Kapelos:Like I'm sort of like a human fact checker for them, but they absorb that right away, like they're not eating at hook line and sinker, but they're inundated with a lot of stuff, and the algorithms, again, are reinforcing a lot of those falsities, and so my worry is not about necessarily the level of engagement, but what is informing it at times, and so that's where I would like direct my attention going forward. But I think that I think to discount young people because they're also interested in skincare or like hanging out with their friends, is you know what I mean? It's a disservice. My kids, my stepkids, are as multifaceted as anyone I've ever known in my life and they're intelligent and they want the world to be a better place, and maybe it doesn't manifest in the exact way it did when I was younger, but I think they're engaged and I just worry about sort of again like the algorithms.
Aaron Pete:That's absolutely fair. Would you mind walking us through the different shows that you host and what stands out to you about them?
Vassy Kapelos:OK, so I host a weekly political show, power Play, every night at five o'clock on a CTV news network and that is sort of like the day of stuff. So yesterday, for example, it was about the questions around Justin Trudeau's leadership the government house leader was here and sort of what they're going to do next week when the House of Commons returns, and by that I mean like what is the legislative agenda? What piece of the legislation are they going to introduce and how are they going to be focused? So what can we expect from the government Basically in the next three or four months? So it's like very of the moment. I try to make it as what's happening. What do you need to know? Who are the people that need to be held account on? What's gone on today?
Vassy Kapelos:And then the other show that I host on TV is called Question Period, which is a show that airs on Sundays and it's a bit different in that it is the pace is like a little bit slower than Power Play. It's more polished, like we put a lot of effort into the production around it because we have the time during the week to do that, and I really try to go for people who will say something that impacts the agenda in the next week. So we try really hard to look ahead in our interview. So, for example, today I interviewed Jodi Thomas, who's the National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister, until about five o'clock tonight. And next week the Foreign Interference Inquiry starts and I wanted to you know, india is part of it now, china is part of it, and so I really wanted to interview her about, like, looking ahead to that prospect and different information that we might not have at our hands yet, that might inform how it plays out, how people perceive it, all that kind of stuff. And so I look for voices like that that are kind of the big and powerful voices, the people who are making a big decisions that impact us. And I try to gear my line of questioning not just on what's happened so far but like what's coming up.
Vassy Kapelos:And the third show was a radio show every day on all of our I Heart News radio stations across the country and that's like my little, like fun time of the day. I do tons of politics and I have amazing panels, but I also do it's like a broad national show, so I also do stuff that's outside of the political arena, which is the first time in like more than a decade that I've ever been able to do that. So that's my new learning curve, like getting good at interviewing people about science or technology or kids. I get to do lots of stories that are of interest to me outside of my career, which has been incredibly fun.
Aaron Pete:That's fascinating, and I'm so glad that you've been able to climb to this point. This is something you wanted to do from the get go. What does it mean to be able to actually live out your dream, one of your goals from an early age? What does that mean to you?
Vassy Kapelos:I feel so lucky. I just feel like I can't believe that I am. To be honest, it's still like super cheesy and emotional for me because I feel sad that my mom never got to see it, because we used to watch those shows together and she was so political and would have been so excited that, on all her hard work and my dad's, I've been able to, you know, do what so few people get to do. And I just feel like I said to my husband the other day like you always worry in this business about getting fired. And I said I can't believe I'm at a point in my life where if I did get fired, it wouldn't ruin me.
Vassy Kapelos:Like I feel like I have been the luckiest person in the world for 15 years. I've had a front row seat to history, I've seen the world, I've reported from all around the world, I get to grill politicians on a nightly basis. Like I don't know what I did to deserve to be this fortunate, but I feel incredibly grateful and now I just got to figure out what to do next. I'm kidding.
Aaron Pete:I really appreciate the work you do. I watch almost all of your shows. I tune in. You are the go to.
Aaron Pete:There are other shows that try and do something similar, but in my personal opinion they don't even hold a candle to the work you're doing of holding individuals accountable, providing diverse perspectives, without doing that getting every perspective in the gambit.
Aaron Pete:You make sure to have very reasonable conversations and there's all these concerns about whether or not journalism is dying or not, and I think you're one of the people doing a very good job of holding power to account, keeping an informed democracy and helping move Canada in the right direction by making sure political leaders explain themselves and give reasonable answers to the questions, and I think that that's an admirable pursuit, that we need to uplift individuals like yourself and be proud that you're the one asking some of these tough questions, because I think that's how we improve our culture, our society and move in the right direction, no matter which party is in power. As long as we have people like yourself doing that work, we are moving in the right direction long term. So I'm thankful for you that you were willing to do the interview and thankful for the work that you do every day informing our society and our culture.
Vassy Kapelos:Well, that's basically the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me, so I'll take that with me for all the years to come. Thank you for having me, thank you for such kind comments, and I hope that we get to talk again.
Aaron Pete:As do I Thank you again.