Nuanced.
Where real conversations happen — with host Aaron Pete.
Nuanced.
152. Vin Jay: How to Craft Impactful Music That Motivates & Inspires Listeners
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Vin Jay offers guidance on crafting music that deeply connects with audiences, advising fellow artists on strategic releases, the significance of emotional authenticity in songs, and how producing high-quality music can significantly elevate an artist's career.
Vin Jay, a dynamic hip-hop artist, captivates audiences with his raw storytelling and impactful lyrics, rising to fame with his hit song "Mumble Rapper vs. Lyricist," a testament to his strategic and resonant approach to music.
Artists and Emotions in Music
Aaron PeteWelcome back to another episode of the Bigger Than Me podcast . Here is your host , Aaron Peet . I am speaking with a man who fuels my runs with motivation , who inspires his listeners with insightful lyrics . My guest today is the one , the only Vin Jay , One of my favorite people to chop it up with . To catch up with Vin Jay , would you mind briefly reminding people who you are ?
Vin JayYep , I can do that . So for those who don't know me , my name is Vinjay . I am a hip hop artist Mainly . I branch out into a few genres from time to time , but mainly hip hop , independent artists . I try to make music that has an impact and uh , yeah , I'd say . That pretty much sums it up .
Aaron PeteIt's been a while since we caught up , since your last album that you draw your last EP . Uh , what have you been up to ?
Vin JaySo , uh , been making a lot of music . Um , I'd say the biggest difference from right now to my past is just the bar that's been set for myself . I'm in here almost every day trying to create records , but what I allow to come out now is much , much less than when it used to be . So I've been releasing the songs that I think are good enough to come out , for sure , but maybe not life changing or super impactful , but they're definitely sonically good enough to come out for sure , but maybe not life-changing or super impactful , but they're definitely sonically good enough to come out and I like them . I think they're a good display of skill set and things of that nature .
Vin JayAnd I've been holding on to all of the ones that I'm like these are out of control , these need to like , be pushed for real , for real . So that's where I'm at . I'm coming to the end phases of holding on to five to six really , really good songs that are going to have full-blown videos . They have a narrative , there are some really impressive artists on them , things of that nature . So everything is kind of coming to a head right now in terms of the good music being released and tour starting .
Aaron PeteSo a lot of big changes a lot of big changes Interesting when you walk into the , when you start creating , do you go into it with whatever mood you're in and start creating the songs that are kind of what are vibing with how you're feeling that day ?
Vin JayYeah , for sure . I've tried many , many times I tried last week to do this to force right over a certain type of beat because someone wants me to get on that beat , or or , um , I feel like I need one of those records because it's been a while and it never works out . It always comes out really generic because there's zero inspiration behind it , the , the words aren't charged with emotion or energy . So , uh , I veered away from writing for the sake of writing . Now , um , yeah , now it's . You have to come into the studio very open . You can come in with an idea of whatever you want . You could try to impose your will on the song . It's not going to work . But , uh , to give you an example of like how I operate now , my uh producer buddy of mine , uh , epidemics , sent me a beat the other day and he's like yo , you should check this out , it's this type of beat , whatever . So I pull it up and it's just , it's a . It's a very good beat .
Vin JayBut it was a very normal dark boom bap record where it's just like heavy drums . It's got that dark energy behind it . So I was like , okay , let me just try to rap to this . So what I do first is I crank the auto tune all the way up so I just start doing some mumbling scats that are melodic , and I catch some really catchy melodies that way . But what happened is , when I was doing those scats , I'm just like and then I heard , when I was listening back to the scats , one of them sounded like the word America and I was like , oh , it's game over now . So now this record that I just sat down with to rap to turned into this very political record , speaking on the state of the world currently and all do you know that's a whole rabbit hole in itself , but just because I was mumbling over a hook , it came to me , the door opened . But there's no way I could have sat down and been like it's time to write about this interesting .
Aaron PeteDo you ever worry about , uh , leaning into those emotions like maybe it's time to write about this Interesting ? Do you ever worry about leaning into those emotions Like maybe it's a really dark song about mental health or the struggles you're facing ? And then there's like you could go too far , you could go down that route . Is there any fear around that ?
Vin JayNo , I have a fear of the exact opposite of the words the listener playing the song and they feel nothing because there is nothing to it . That is my biggest fear and that's what prevents me from putting out 90 of the songs I make . Okay , it could be extremely lyrical and impressive and whatever , but if there's no emotion in my voice because it's just impressive for the sake of being impressive , I just I can't play a record where that sounds so uninspired . So no , the the more human chords I can , you know , touch with the words , the better .
Aaron PeteStraight up , and if it pisses some people off , fuck them is there any like impact over the next few days if you go down a rabbit hole and start think maybe it connects with some part of your life and you're talking about something you went through and then now you're really digging into the meaning of it , maybe you're sharpening up the lyrics and now you're kind of stewing over this darkness that you experienced or this heavy moment in your life that that kind of carries over with you for a week or for however long it makes takes to make that song um , maybe a little bit .
Vin JayI don't let it leave the studio too much . Oh man , how was I going to word this ? Excuse me , my train of thought is everywhere today . I apologize , but no , it'll stick with me , but in a good way . I want to live in that emotion , big , big , big time . So I could translate it . I don't . Oh , now I remember what I was going to say .
Vin JayI love when I'm writing and it forces me to feel heavily a certain way , and I think that's because , you know , I'm blessed enough to have achieved certain things in my life and I'm blessed enough to have the accolades I do and the financial blessings from what I do . So life can regular things and I don't want this to sound jaded , but a lot of times the regular day-to-day can feel very mundane and that is like way more damaging to me and my mental health than feeling anything really hard , whether it's sad , happy , anger , dah , dah , dah . In terms of creating a song , I love when I get wrapped up and completely consumed by that emotion , because when I go day in and day out of a regimented lifestyle and lack any intense feeling , that shit is what sucks way worse than getting wrapped up in any emotion .
Aaron PeteFascinating . Maybe you can help me process this . One of the rappers that really I admire was Juice WRLD , and one of the thoughts that I kind of had about his whole process was that he had to go right near a cliff and basically like dangle over that cliff and you can say in his songs he talks about like uh dying and and overdosing on drugs and the risk of that to his life and that he doesn't know if he's going to survive and like I think he was really right there , like I actually think he went to that cliff and he was like , oh my gosh , like I am right here . And then we as listeners go like wow , what is it like to be there ?
Aaron PeteAnd I kind of resonate with that and you're saying the big emotion that I feel and you're verbalizing and you're walking us through it . But I think that artists have to go there and I think there's a genuine risk that to share the depths of that emotion you have to teeter on the edge of your own mental health safety and your own physical and well-being safety . And I just feel terrible that he actually did pass away and he foresaw his own death in his music and that's terrifying . And so when I hear people leaning into these emotions , part of me is like we're so grateful as listeners to have that . But on the flip side it's like where you go is where so few people are able to sometimes come back from . Do you process that at all or think about those things ?
Vin JayOh yeah , um , it's our job as artists . Man , we're vessels and and we can complain about including myself we can complain about the ultra highs and ultra lows that we get because of it , but I wouldn't trade it for anything . Man like the , the ability to be able to be that like conduit for that feeling for others and the effect that that has on them , far surpasses whatever major lows and major highs come from this shit . Um , but yes , you need to be engulfed in it for real , otherwise it's going to sound in uninspired . I've heard songs from other artists and it could be on topics as aggressive as drug addiction , of things of that nature . But if they're just doing it to make a song about drug addiction , you could hear the difference , man , they are saying very generic things about sadness and being in a dark place and , uh , you know , woe is me . But when someone is there , bro , you can hear it like in the word choice , in the pain in their voice , you could hear the tone of their voice and I think , for true art , I mean , you could do whatever you want and you , your song could pop , even if you make it for the sake of making the song , but to really create art that's impactful , you do have to go there , and I was talking to my buddy about this a few weeks ago . So I have a song I wrote back in 2021 . Okay , and it's a really good song .
Navigating Artistic Expression and Personal Growth
Vin JayBut when I wrote it , the recording kind of got messed up , okay , so I had to rerecord it , but the verse is very sad and there's some pain in the voice and all that and thank God , I'm mentally in a good place right now . So when I go to rerecord it I've tried so many times to rerecord it and it's just not believable because I have to like fake sadness , because I'm not in that place anymore . But it's so good that I want the song to come out . But I told my buddy we were having a conversation about it , so I would have to put myself intentionally in a dark place . I would have to be genuinely upset about something to get this song to where I want it to be , and I can't force bad life events to happen , nor do I want to .
Vin JaySo what I said to him I've been off alcohol for eight plus months now and I said to him , like the tortured artists man , the like self-inflicted damage we do for our art because if I really wanted this song to work out , I would probably have to break my sobriety and then like , feel really fucked up about it , and then I could like you would hear it in the record . But it's a choice , man and um . It's not always the right choice to dive into . That . I think it makes for incredible art . But you also were humans at the same time . So we are riding this fine line of like artist and human being who's trying to feel peace .
Aaron PeteWith somebody who really understands the depths of these emotions and like is able to sit with them in a different way . What is your biggest fear ?
Vin JayAh , that's a big question . What is my biggest fear ? It's , it's so unrelated it's . And fear is such a loaded word too . You know , like I tech , I have a fear of public speaking , but I'm going on tour , I don't give a shit , I'm going to run headfirst into it , I don't care , so . So fear is such a weird word , cause I think , as humans , we adapt to anything , regardless of how bad it is . Um , I don't know if it okay , okay , yeah , my biggest fear is probably losing someone I care about , right , um , in a way that's out of my control , I guess , but I think that's everyone's biggest fear is like , probably you know what . I take that back because it's not that specific thing , it's the principle underneath it , and that is a feeling of helplessness . That is my biggest fear .
Aaron PeteInteresting . Can you talk to me about the process that you've been through ? To me , you're one of these really unique artists , because it's not just that like you come out with great songs . I feel like you're working on this underlying philosophy around your life , around meaning , around making an impact bigger than yourself , around contributing that gives a voice to great music . Like I've heard it from comedians like Joe Rogan that say you need to live life , then you need to go on the stage and share that life . You can't just stay on tour forever and just keep coming out with new jokes . You have to go live in the real world and then bring the humor of that world back on stage . And it's the same for music . You can't just sit in , and so you've been developing this philosophy . What is that journey been like ? That really informs your music ?
Vin JayYeah , um , I'll be honest . Personally I'm a bit of a recluse , but I've , uh , I've felt negative effects from that , so I've veered from that . I think so often we think like , oh , people suck , so I'm going to isolate myself . But that's a very short-term fix and it has negative consequences on your mental health , so I've learned not to do that . With that being said , I agree with you that you can't pour from an empty cup . You got to fill it before you can share with others Again .
Vin JayThe way I do it , man , like I said , I live a pretty regimented lifestyle . Uh , my day in , day out looks very , very , very similar from one day to the next until I feel very mundane and then I'm like it used to be , like let's go get drunk . Now I just tell my girl , like let's go get Krispy Kreme and eat all the donuts , so , so , um , I guess for me it's experiences with new experiences with people that I care about is kind of what I've been leaning into . Doesn't have to be anything crazy . Like my mom came out here a few weeks ago , me , her , my buddy and my wife went to like an escape room for the first time , just anything that stimulates the senses , the mind and it right . I think new is the name of the game , regardless of what it is , because our day in and day out could be so redundant that just get a little spark back in you for life to be excited about being alive again . I think that's kind of how I go about it .
Aaron PeteOkay , we've got to dive into some of the music now . You came out , you came on the show and then , I believe right after you came out , the song no Excuses , and it was such a good song and I missed the opportunity . So we have to go all the way back and we have to talk about that one . We were chatting before this about the anterior mid cingulate cortex and how fascinating that is , and I'm just curious as to how that song came about and , again , some of the people that informed that mindset yeah , so that's an interesting one , actually it's .
Vin Jayit's uh got a cool backstory . So me , futuristic anakin , oswin benjamin who else was there ? A bunch of artists . Okay , we rented a beautiful , beautiful mansion in Sedona for like a three to five day artist retreat , we did , and so we're in this beautiful , beautiful house with the intention of making music over the next five days . Maybe we get on each other's songs , whatever , but just again , new , new place . The window had a gigantic mountain range outside of it , just out of control . So everyone was very inspired .
Finding Purpose and Motivation Through Music
Vin JayNow I am listening to songs that have good vibes on them . It feels kind of like summertime or just like , you know , a good time with friends . And again , brick wall , again brick wall after brick wall after brick wall . I think I was just forcing the environment onto the songs and it just wasn't right . But what ended up happening ? Right , the net .
Vin JaySo the next morning I'm on the balcony we're smoking hookah and george , uh , my manager comes up to me and he's like yo , this dude uh , tend to send me some beats . Uh , let me know if you mess with any of them . So he has his phone next to my ear . I was like nope , nope Plays the third or fourth one , I was like send me that . So he sends me no excuses .
Vin JaySo now , after two days of not being able to write anything , I lock myself in my room and for five hours am pacing across this room writing because they pulled this energy out of me of like man , like I'm the shit . That's what it felt like , and also it's when I get in those spaces of being unable to write , self-doubt washes over you right , like , oh my God , I've been trying to write for two days . I can't do shit . Is something wrong with me ? Do I have writer's block ? Am I not talented ? So when you finally catch this wave of motivational energy to write the record , you ride that thing . So I wrote for hours on end , wrote the whole thing there and then recorded it when I got back to the crib , back at my house , recorded it when I got back to the crib uh , back at my house and um , yeah .
Aaron Peteso it went from not being able to write to writing like a three minute no hook song , just about like breaking barriers and pushing through adversity which really links up nicely with the idea of the anterior mid cingulate cortex , which I'm getting very comfortable rolling off my tongue now which is this idea of like you can develop grit , like there's a you mentioned David Goggins and running like David Goggins and that idea that you're going to get up and he talks about how he stares at his shoes before he goes for a run and goes like I don't want to do this and then he goes shut up . You're going to do this and you're going to get it done and I'm just curious as to your lay of the land . You do see out into the world and it seems like we're so soft . Like when I tell people all the things that I'm managing , they're like wow , you're really busy and it's like why aren't you ? Like there's so much life to live here , like nobody's standing in your way .
Aaron PeteThe whole idea of a free country is you can go , get after it . You can max out your day with stuff to do . You can schedule it so it works for you . Jordan Peterson does a great job of saying like you can make sure to include the fun things you want to do in a day . Your schedule isn't like restricting you to boring meetings . You can fill it up with the things you actually want to do and it just seems like well , like we want four day work weeks . We want less work , we want to lay around more . We want to beach in Mexico where we don't have to do anything and it's like . But where's like ? Where are you making an impact ? Where are you influencing people ? Where are you growing things to be better for others ? Like that's where I feel like you do such a good job of that song , of being like go get after it .
Vin JayThere's no one stopping you and there's these other examples in the world that you can look to to grow , and I find that so inspirational but sort of missing from like the culture so I think because I won't say everyone most people , let's say , work in jobs that they don't necessarily love they think they want to do nothing , right , like , oh , I can't wait for the weekend so I could just not do this right , so I could just chill the fuck out . But I say I think I was talking to my dad about it . I was like everyone thinks they want to do nothing until they have the ability to do nothing , and then you'll realize how bad doing nothing sucks . Sitting and doing nothing , what is it ? Uh , idle hands of the devil's playground . Is that the saying ? Yeah , it's so freaking true , because the days I don't do this anymore , but in the past , when I would spend it a whole day , two days doing nothing , you do not feel good and I think that's because you lack purpose .
Vin JayThere is no purpose in doing nothing . No one says you have to go after these things to make money or have accolades or this stature of success , but it's purpose-driven . You waking up and doing nothing for yourself or for anybody else , whether that's you did some pushups , congratulations . You did something for yourself or you did something that helped someone else . You have this joy within you now because your life has some sense of meaning . I think everyone misinterprets when they're getting yelled at by David Goggins that like , well , I don't want to do that , I don't want to be ripped , I don't want to be rich , fair , you don't need to be . But action will make you feel a lot better than inaction .
Aaron PeteTo put it very simply I couldn't agree more and they just kind of prove out the test case right , like he's willing to go do that . So you know that it's possible . So you know that you have no excuses , that you can go and chase whatever you want to do and go succeed . But I'm just wondering when you make a song like that , is there any ability to process the fact that that is fuel to people's fire , that I take it into the gym , that other people take it out on a run and they're able to run longer , move faster , and that you're putting that energy into the world , that hopefully all those listeners are able to rise to the occasion in their own lives and you're able to contribute Like I get so nervous for interviews with you because I'm like that's your contribution , like that's a huge contribution to give to the world , to encourage them to reach their full potential .
Artist's Highs and Lows
Vin JaySo I wouldn't say I go in with that specific intention when I create . It's more so just a beautiful byproduct of creating what I can only create which is impactful shit . And I don't say that on some like I , I only know how to make music that helps people . It's not what I mean . I mean like again going back to what I said earlier is I have no reasoning . It lacks purpose to put out songs for the sake of making songs .
Vin JaySo , as selfish as it sounds , I make these songs because I want to feel something or I need to purge an energy . And it just so happens that when you're that true to yourself and the intention is that pure , it resonates with people . So I love that it can do that for people and motivate them . But I can't motivate people if I'm not motivated . So it's just these really raw emotions of whether it's motivating I can motivate you or whether I'm sad and I make a sad song reflecting . I can make you feel not alone , but at the end of the day it's just it's got to come from a very , very real place , not alone , but at the end of the day it's just it's got to come from a very , very real place . Love that it impacts people in whatever fashion , but that cannot be my target from the jump .
Aaron PeteOtherwise it's going . It's just misguided Interesting . Do you find that it's a challenge at all ? Because you do make these amazing records and you've kind of also talked about that . You don't always feel that way , that like in in that moment you can feel like you're the man and you killed it and you destroyed that beat , but then other days you're just a normal person and you might not have those same emotions . Is it at all strange to be in that juxtaposition sometimes , where you drop a song where you're like I'm the man , I'm killing it , I'm taking over the world , and then the next song is like I don't know if I'm shit , like I don't know where I'm going , like I don't know what's going on , like is that , is that at all a journey ?
Vin Jayyeah , it's a journey , bro . I didn't have these um , high highs and low lows until I really popped off because I guess just like getting thrown into the water with the sharks and it's like learn how to swim and make your music career pop . It was a . It's a a spiritual journey on its own , teaching me how to maneuver . But yeah , man , the highs and lows are crazy because you do get a high when you make something that powerful .
Vin JayYou just use your voice to create sound waves that when they hit someone else , is going to change the way they're vibrating , and that is a high . And when you play back the recording , you know you just did that before you even release a song , because it's doing it to you . When you click play right , you're like holy shit , this is making me feel nuts . So that high is what you chase . The problem is it is a high . So when you're in the studio for seven days after that , it doesn't matter that you just made potentially one of the biggest songs of your career , the song that you're the happiest with . It doesn't matter , because now you've went seven days without being able to achieve it again and that doesn't sound like much . But you just did it and you want it again .
Vin JaySo yeah , the highs and lows are vast , and something I struggle with is I derive so much purpose from it that when it's been a while since I've done that , I feel low , like lower than usual , and then it's like I have to like parent myself and be like all right , go . It's clearly not working right now . Go live some life . Go do something else that makes you happy . I know this is like up there for you , but you got . You can't just sit here and and beat your head against the wall Cause you're not able to get it right away . So it is that it's . It's chasing that high again , but also realizing like when it's time to back off Cause you're doing more harm than good to yourself .
Aaron PeteYeah , cause I can imagine being around the futuristics and and the Anakins like you . Like you want to show out , you want to show up and you want to give all that energy and then to have those mental struggles of like what's going on , why aren't I hitting and what can I do differently or what do I need to change . That can all start to get into your head and it reminds me of I don't know if you know the fighter , dustin Poirier , but he talked about the exact same thing with fighting . He did a great interview with Ariel Hawane where he was like man . After my last fight I was like am I the guy anymore ? Like he was .
Aaron PeteLike everything I was was a UFC fighter and the guy that showed up and the diamond and I'm willing to fight and I have the most grit and the most determination and everybody respects me .
Aaron PeteBut I just lost my last fight fight . I got knocked out by Justin Gaethje and so I didn't know if I was that guy anymore and he said he got the lowest he's ever been in his life after that fight and yet he has everybody's respect , like he lost a fair fight but like nobody loses their respect for his grit and his determination as a consequence , but his whole mindset . He wasn't thinking of himself as a husband , as a father as a consequence , but his whole mindset he wasn't thinking of himself as a husband , as a father , as a family . He lost all of that because of that moment and he had to work his way back . And it seems like when you're chasing something so big , like becoming a great , great artist or becoming a great UFC fighter , when you're chasing that big goal , sometimes you can lose yourself to that and and forget that you're all of these other things .
Vin JayYeah and um . For me personally , cause that's all I could speak on , I guess is that's what it takes . You have to . There's such stiff competition in these things , right , like to even make a living as a UFC fighter or a rapper , or fill in the blank , the like it's . There's not many , right , that make a very good living . So so , uh , you , it requires all of you , and , and you'll yield the results from that too , but it's hit and miss .
Vin JayIt's like you , to get those highs that you're seeking after , you are going to need to be able to get punched in the face and keep going no pun intended , cause we were just talking about UFC but you need to , like , take some hard losses because you're you're in the wild , wild West , you're not playing it safe , you're not doing the traditional route . So you want that , everyone has this . You want this . Well then , you're gonna need to experience down here when they only experience down here . It's the fucking trade-off , it's the yin and yang . You want higher highs , you get lower lows . That's the name of the game , and if you can accept that , then you can push forward and say this is the other side of the coin of what I asked for that is brilliant .
Music Collaboration Process and Vibes
Aaron PeteYou then come out with super superhuman , with anakin , and I loved your , your first team up , uh , because you'd be passing that beat back and forth . Did you come up with that when you all went out together , or was that a separate song ?
Vin Jaycome up with that when you all went out together , or was that a separate song for superhuman ? Yeah , yeah , so very similar , very similar um approach to superhuman , as we did for sedona . Basically , um , my buddy uh , made me a beat . Um , he actually didn't even make it for me . He just always sends me snippets of the beats he's making and I was like , send that to me right now . So he sent me superhuman . I recorded my verse and this I actually wow , I just I'm just remembering this . So superhuman had three other artists on it before anakin and I . They all did great but it wasn't the energy I was looking for . It didn't complete the song the way I had wanted it to . So I told them all thank you , but like , not on this one .
Vin JayCannon came over Anakin , so I call him Cannon . I know that confuses a lot of people . He came over and he did what he did and I had the back and forth parts ready already . My part was recorded . I put a space , my parts recorded , put a space , and he just understood the assignment . Like he's a dancer , and a very good one at that , so he understands like how to pick something back up that was just left off . So like even the way he picks up where I left off . No other artist did this who sent me a verse back . I'm like and I make it look easy , bitch Everyone . When I said that just started their verse , cannon picked it up . He said I'll stomp you wet on my Yeezys , bitch . And then he started his verse . It was like I got you , I'm going to finish your thing and now I'll come in .
Aaron PeteIt felt a lot more cohesive , but it's just yeah , he did his thing on that one have like talking sticks and like it seemed like you were passing that back and forth and that you guys are able to like become in sync and I think really good songs can do that like I think of like g-eazy and bb rexa when they did their song together me myself and I like that one took off , but it took off because they complemented each other and and they kind of like interwove the music . What is if I , if I can ask what is the process when you're trying to select someone for a song ? Do you just put a call out where it goes out to the world and anybody can submit ? Like how does that work ?
Vin Jayno , it is definitely not a call out and anyone can submit type thing . The way I see it , music is just vibrations . Right , you pluck a string on a guitar , it goes back and forth and it makes a resonant tone and we like the way it sounds . Then you put some pressure on it somewhere and it makes a different noise . Right , our voices are instruments too . We're just vibrating our vocal cords . It's coming out with a certain tone and whatever Certain songs call for guitar , xylophone , piano right , just because that's what the mood calls for .
Vin JaySome songs call for specific voices , certain tones , certain instruments and not others . So I knew canon's tone would fit very well on that beat , as well as his flow patterns and how he rides beats . But I could , I could tell you 10 talented artists that I like that would have made no sense on it , even if they are lyrical choppers . Just , it's an , it's an energy thing , it's a vibration thing and you can hear who it calls for . Like , if I played you a beat , a very specific beat , you could be like , oh , I could hear um 50 cent on this . It's because it's you just know , there's a , you know an instrument , aka someone's voice , that would complement the already existing instruments in the instrumental .
Aaron PeteThat's really deep because it seems so applicable to so many circumstances where you want to be very intentional about making those decisions . Since we last spoke , he actually dropped his album . I'm sure you listened to it . What was your feeling of it and what did you take away from it ? From Anakin's album ? Anakin's album yeah , yeah .
Vin JaySo he threw a release party . It's even bigger than that . I don't even know what you would call it , but it was an event . There you go . He threw an event at this immersive hall , let's call it , where the walls projected pictures and he invited all his friends and performed the album from front to back when it first came out . That was incredible .
Vin JayI really enjoy Canon's music for a reason that I don't enjoy most people's music . If I like others' music , it's like oh , they could sing well , their flow is incredible , they could rap well . Others music it's like oh , they're very they could sing well , their flow is incredible , they could rap well . They , uh , they're very creative with the tone and pockets , right .
Vin JayCannon's music is different , man . His comes from a like really ethereal place . He's very big on creating from scratch , like he'll . He'll make the beat with the producer from the beginning , from a blank slate , and he's like I like that instrument , I like the way it buzzes and sounds , let's build off that . And he just really finds these spaces of thought within the songs that in a way that I don't think many people do . I think he does a really good job at speaking universally and still it's digestible , if that makes sense .
Vin JayUm , yeah , I think his creation process is what I love the most and it shows a lot in his music . Most people including myself and many , many of my peers is like we get a 95 finished beat and then we make a song to it , send it back to the producer , like produce some cool shit around my vocals to make them pop a little more . Cannon builds like a painter . He's like let's throw this here , let's throw that there . That makes me want to do this . Now , here we're going to completely change the beat and do a breakdown and it's going to turn into a dance record I think he creates . He doesn't follow the template at all , he doesn't follow the structure at all , and that's what makes his music sound the way it does .
Aaron PeteFascinating .
Music, Doubt, and Peace
Aaron PeteYou also came out with the song Lost , and your wife was on that song with you . Would you mind sharing the backstory ?
Vin JayYeah , so that one's not as crazy . So , to be completely honest , whenever Cassidy is on a song it's because I write all my hooks and I try to record everything and if it's out of my range it's just too high . I just call her in there , I scream from the other side of the house and she comes in , hops on the mic and she takes care of it . But I think , going back to instruments , voices as instruments I think the female vocal on the hook added a really nice um , uh contrast to the record as a whole . I had a really deep low tone on the verse and then to hear that feminine sound come in on the hook with me laid underneath it , I felt like it really um , came together .
Vin JayBut the story behind the lyrics of the song , I would say , is just . That was one of those in-between moments of I hadn't made a , no excuse , a superhuman , a Sedona , and that was me preaching about it . It's just . It's the woes of the journey of trying to find that next one and it sounds so minuscule and little like oh , you're sad you can't make another big song , but it's so much deeper than that , it's purposeful . That's where a lot of my purpose is derived . So that's me making some music while I'm on my way to find another song that makes me feel purposeful .
Aaron PeteHere's a philosophical question for you . Would you say that you feel more comfortable in those dark moments , in those lost , or those running songs , or more comfortable in the superhuman , in the no excuses mindset ? Where do you feel more at home ?
Vin JayIt's so evenly split . Okay , so evenly split , cause I only live in either or I don't live in in-between . I live in top of the mountain or darkness , so it's those are . I have two homes and those are both them . So they are the two types of records that I make the easiest , and it's only because I value the first one so much that the second option is just the default when that one can't come interesting .
Aaron PeteInteresting , because the weird thing I would say about me is that I think for the most part I come across as a pretty positive , happy person and usually when I'm interviewing someone it's like how do you reach your full potential ? But then I'll go listen to NK or I'll listen to Running or I'll listen to NF , and it's like I just feel like I'm just a loser that just never went anywhere in life and like that's like my comfort zone is like thinking that I just never made it anywhere . And then I go out and I try and be positive and uplifting but like that's like my behind the scenes brain is like maybe this podcast goes nowhere , maybe I'm an idiot , like maybe I'm not just those same type of thoughts , but that's like my my comfort zone is is sitting in those feelings .
Vin JayYeah , again , I think it comes with the territory , man , I think when you strive for so much , you're bound to have harsh feelings of doubt because you're you're venturing down the path less traveled . So it is . There are not as many success stories that you could look up to and be like . This is definitely going to work . So that crippling doubt man is I just I think it's way more common than me and you think it is Cause it's not as popular to talk about that part of the glamorous entrepreneur lifestyle . But I genuinely think it comes with it because what we're doing is high risk , high reward .
Aaron PeteCouldn't agree more . Then you dropped the song running , and this one was a really good one . One of my favorite lines from it was can't nobody keep it peaceful ? And I love that , because there's only a few interviews that I've done where I can genuinely hear peace in the person's voice as they're communicating . Like I think it's like four interviews where they just sound like nothing could bother them and they have this philosophy around how they're communicating that sounds like if you were to throw something at them they'd process it calmly .
Aaron PeteLike that whole energy doesn't make sense to me , like I don't have that communication style . But when they bring that it's like wow , that really is rare . Like we are so easy to pop off and be frustrated when somebody cuts us off in traffic or when somebody says something mean to us on social media or when a family member disrespects us at the dinner table . Like we're so easily challenged and it's hard to find peace where , when something does arise , you're not impacted because you understand your place in the larger world . Can you tell us about the song running , uh , and and that line ?
Vin Jayyes . So , man , I want to touch on the on what you just said as well . That level of peace is foreign to me . It's and I get it . I get it because I've felt intense peace before .
Vin JayBut to have that as your default is nuts for me personally .
Vin JayBecause I don't know , man , if you and I I hate to sound like a uh , um , you know how could I word this .
Vin JayI hate to sound like doom and gloom , right , but if you just look like at what is going on in the world and you really have your finger on the pulse of things , if you're that at peace , you either don't have anything you're concerned about losing , or you don't plan on protecting people you care about , or you're uninformed onto what's going on , or like you're okay with dying and the people you care about dying , like .
Vin JayIt's very confusing to me , if you really are tapped into what's going on in the world , that you can just be like , yeah , everything's cool , man . It's like I'm telling you it is not like maybe go get yourself . Go get yourself 12 months worth of food , water and and some guns or something , and then maybe you could have that peace because you're like , okay , everything's cool , and if shit does pop off , then we're going to be fine . But still , bro , I don't know . I think tensions are so high and I'm not trying to be divisive or politicize this entire podcast , but if I could speak vaguely about it , that's what I would say . I think the world is in a wild place right now and a lot of shit is coming to the forefront Really , really deep truths that are going to affect everything and to have full peace , while all that is going on is a bit confusing to me .
Aaron PeteAgreed . The only area I guess I'd follow up with is maybe it's been that way since , like I think we as people can get stuck in like this is our timeframe . But like you have to think , during the Cold War things were like maybe way worse than this , because they really did almost hit that nuclear like attack button . They really were that close and when you think of World War Two , like we were this close to losing and the world would be a completely different place if we did , and so like maybe the , maybe the pieces that We've been here before , we've been in utter chaos Before , but maybe humans have an inclination to overcome those things at that final hour , not press the button and and win the war when it comes time .
Vin JayYeah , I've taken . I found solace in that that you know I can't change anything myself , but if the time does come then you know I'll be , I'll be , I'll be willing to do whatever I need to do to . You know , keep the people I care about and things I hold near and dear safe .
Aaron PeteI have to say , as a Canadian , I have a lot of admiration for that and I do think we lack that in Canada and I think if you look at some of our politics it will reflect that we're not very good at that . But like , as you said , having three months worth of food , making sure that you're prepared , making sure that you have a vehicle , making sure that you know where you would go if things got out of hand we had the Vancouver riot Like just being mindful of those things I think is important . But let's get back to your song Running and how that song came about .
Vin JayYeah , it wouldn't be a Vin podcast if I don't tangent about politics for at least 30 seconds . Running , running , running , that's okay . So that's a lower vibrational song than even low was . Low was , I'm sorry , not low it lost . Lost is kind of uh , you know I'm doing all right . I feel a little upset about things . Running is is way darker . That is um , that's just about the real crippling self-doubt that can consume you . Right , lost is just exactly that . You're feeling a bit lost , you're not sure , but you're going to keep pushing on either way . Right , running is is . You're at the end of your rope . It feels like it's , it's a call , it's a cry for help in the sense that , like hoping someone feels the way that you feel , that's the best way I could say that that song is really just a Reflection of dark thoughts .
Music Release Strategies and Collaborations
Aaron PeteCan we talk about the cover art for some of these lost and running ? There's just great cover art , just like . There's there ones where , like , I'm excited to send it to somebody because it's like it's just it's the exact mood that you want to send to them . And then you see other artists and it just doesn't always kind of jive , Like they're going to look at it and they're going to go like why did you send me this ? This isn't what I'm looking at . Yours are always on point and they kind of have that energy . How do you get your , your cover art developed ?
Vin JayIt's very underwhelming , very underwhelming . It's as close to like stock images as you can get without it being stock images . But my selection process is very particular . The same way I listened for who would fit on a song , I go through many photos for cover arts and say , like that is the energy of this song , right I love that .
Aaron PeteIs there anyone that stood out to you over all the songs you've made that you're super proud of ?
Vin Jaycover art wise , yeah uh , let's see , I'm not . I'm not huge on cover art as as particular as I am with it . I'm not super big on it because I don't think it plays a gigantic role in the performance of the song or how many people it can reach . Let's see , let's see , I think . I think the see the light one was pretty cool . It's literally just an eye with a literal stream of light over it . But , like I said , I don't put too much thought into it , so if I gave you a long-winded answer it would not be genuine right .
Aaron PeteCan we talk about god damn ? Because that one was like it hit and I was on a run and I was like , oh my gosh , this is exactly what I needed . And then it got me all thinking about all the lyrics , and we'll get into that in a second . But how did that song come about ?
Vin JayYeah . So me and Gon have met a few times and basically when we do songs we just trade , typically like if you get on someone's songs , you go , okay , give me a 20% cut of the royalties of the song and and we're good to go , that's my payment for the record . Or give me a flat rate payment and then don't give me any royalties , but me and a few artists we just trade . It's like here's your verse for me and I'll hit you up , and then you give me a verse for one of my records . So gone , hit me up for that one . And and he went off as per usual .
Vin JayAnd I always say I I low key do better on features than I do on my own songs , because the competition is there and I refuse to be the worst one on the song . So so I did . Uh , yeah , he sent it to me . He's like you know , do your verse . So I made sure I snapped for him , stayed on brand with the lyrics , did a little chopper flow in some spots , cause that's you know , the fans love that . Um , and then he just sent me a verse back for a song of mine , and that song is arguably the best unreleased song I have right now wow , okay , and then mercules is on that song as well , so , uh , you've done a few songs with him .
Aaron PeteUh , what did you think of his verse and what did you think of the song release ?
Vin Jayyeah , I mean for the song released . When it released the numbers crushed , which I mean , obviously everyone did their thing , but you never know what a song how it's going to perform . Right , you could love it , it could flop , but uh , it crushed when it came out . And yeah , murk always kills him , man , he's been doing this shit for a while and he's my guys went viral . How many times now , just from you know rapping . So he , mercurys , is one of those dudes , bro , and it's always fun to get on a song with artists that push you and that you respect that , what they've done and what they continue to do . And when everyone goes off on a record and it's your turn , I don't think there's much more inspiring than that to really push you to to go off on the record .
Aaron PeteIs it ever surreal , like getting on , like chatting with you ? I always get like super nervous . Is there any nerves , sitting chatting with them , chopping it up with them , like is there any feelings ? Or are you guys just buddies ? Because I don't know , I don't know if I could , if you , if I was in a room with you guys , I think my hands get sweaty and I don't think I'm as chill as you .
Vin Jayuh no , I don't really get starstruck , especially with people that I consider my peers right yeah , yeah , um , I mean I , is there anyone that I've met ?
Vin Jayyeah , of course , I mean I'd say the biggest person I've met . You know , I met tech . That was super dope , um , but it wasn't starstruck . You're just kind of like , you're just happy to be around a man as people that inspire you . So , uh , there's some nerves maybe on the way there , but once you get around people you're like , oh , you're just a regular person who does incredible shit . But yeah , like when I met tech , I had a little bit of that feeling Same him . But the second you say what's up to them ?
Aaron Peteit's all gone , bro , it's all just people who did awesome yeah , murk is another one , because he's like I work in surrey , like he's right there , like , uh , he's infamous around here . We also have to talk about the game needs a cleanse . This is one of your lines .
Vin JayYou have to explain it to me yeah , this is on the damn record , right . Yeah , what is that line ? Oh , I feel like the game being lacking a cleanse , I'm ready to kill . Yeah , so that is just . It needs a refresh . And I don't mean like , oh well , music sucks and da-da-da-da-da , that's not what I mean . I mean , I think , because we're in the age of more music equals better the more you put out , the better and the more content , the better , I think everything starts to sound really derivative and template . So when I say a cleanse , I mean we just need some refreshing artistry . That's all I'm saying . And and look , I look , I've fallen victim to sounding like some of my inspirations as well , but the way I've approached I guess cleansing my own music is making sure that the things I put out resonate and just sharpen your craft a bit . Just stop playing to the algorithm . Less is more sometimes , and yeah , and that's all . I think everyone just take your craft a little more seriously , including myself .
Aaron PeteInteresting . Do you find that , like you think of Russ , and he kind of , I think , would say , put out the rubric of dropping these singles and keeping up with it and he tried to give a little bit of a rubric on what these singles and and keeping up with it and he tried to give like a little bit of a rubric on on what you do as a , an independent artist . And maybe people take that too far sometimes or they kind of lock into a process and instead of coming from that place of inspiration , they're treating it more like just a business where they just need to get out a product yeah , I think if you're russ and you can put out that many songs and the quality can stay up , by all means release as frequently as you can , as long as your quality doesn't suffer .
Vin JayBut Russ definitely coined that method of going about releasing music the way that people release content and how oversaturated music is . Now , if you don't release every two weeks , three weeks , you feel like you're being forgotten because all of your peers have released another song and 40 pieces of content . So now you're lost in the sea . You're trying to poke your hand out and say , hey , I still exist . But that moment of hey , I still exist . You're presenting something that's subpar a lot of the time because you didn't take your time , because all you cared about was not being forgotten about what advice would you have for rappers ?
Vin Jaytake your time . Making something great is not that common anymore because everyone just wants to make more . So if you can just make something great , it's going to stand out .
Vin JayPeople always ask me why I don't push content hard like a lot of other people and make a lot of short-form content .
Vin JayOne is because my energy can't be divided that hard or I choose not to divide my energy like that , rather and it's also because I'm a firm believer that cream rises to the top . So if I can take my time and make something incredible and undeniable and then I put a video behind it that also has the same amount of effort as the song did , I think cream rises to the top , and I don't need to force feed you 40 pieces of short form content to beg you to listen to my song . You're just gonna want to and it's gonna spread by word of mouth because it's good , and I think people are underestimating good music spreading by itself because content works . It . It's like , yes , it does , but like it doesn't matter how much you dress up a shitty song If you can just to boil it back down . If you make good songs , really good songs that you take your time on , you're going to stand out because you're doing something that someone else can't , that most people can't people can't .
Aaron PeteThat was really well said . And it kind of goes back to the beginning of our conversation where , like , the authenticity is also really key . Like I think people see what nf did and they go like I need to figure out a way to fit that mold and I need to create what he created and I need to do it in the same way because he proved that it works . And then people kind of like , well , if you're not there to what you described earlier , you you're going to kind of miss that . And I find that my favorite songs , like your albums , are still in my most recently played list and they stay there because I go back and I listen to it and it has meaning behind it and I go .
Aaron PeteI'm in this different point in my life but that line has a new meaning to me today than it did before , where I look at some songs and I don't mean to rip on them , but like the chain smokers , they don't have depth to the lyrics .
Aaron PeteThey figured out what the common way to to make a beat kind of ring in your ear and it hits for the first 20 days and then you can't hear that song again without wanting to turn it off , like it changes the meaning behind it over time . But great , find a way to you go back to it and like nf I think is also good at this of like you go back and you like , yeah , I do need to change in my life or I do need these things , and you , you go back and you learn something new about yourself from listening to the song . And that's something where I think there's like a depth to the lyrics that you need to find and that will withstand the test of time and become a great song , because that's the other concern is like certain songs just seem to sit there at that top played list for a reason , because there's depth and you can learn about yourself through that yeah , I think you said it best .
Vin JayIt's . It's that authenticity man it's . I think , intention is a really big talking point behind this , because guess what man like . There's no wrong answer . If you want to make music for money , then go make music for money and you can follow the pop template and all that fun stuff and it could . If you're talented and have a voice on you , it's probably going to work real talk . But but from my personal experience , making music for money is it's a it's meaningless bro .
Vin JayAgain , going back to purpose , go ahead , cause guess what ? Let me let you in on a little secret , and it's not that big of a secret . Once you get money and then your whole intention of making music was to make money , it's going to suck to make . You're gonna suck to make . You're not gonna like it because you already have money . And what are you gonna do with more money ? Buy things that make you feel hollow . So if you want money and you want to make songs like that , run it up . But it is not a long-term plan to gain fulfillment from your music . And I also .
Vin JayI also think the people who do decide to make music as a journal or to help others or any real motivator . Those resonate with humans , right . So there's a really funny thing , man . So there's people who have , like , let's say , a million monthly listeners on Spotify , right , but their music is not talking about shit , maybe it just sounds good and they cannot sell out a venue for their life . And then there's people with 200,000 monthly listeners that are selling out 2000 cap venues every night because what they're talking about resonates with people . So intention again , like , yeah , you can make your streaming money , but you may not have longevity and you also may feel like shit once you get money and that's that , and you realize it isn't all that anyway once your bills are paid . So , yeah , I think , um , it's a really loaded topic , but I think intention the intention you have when you go to create your music determines a lot beautiful
Musician Excited for First Tour
Vin Jay.
Aaron PeteWell said , you're going on tour . Can you tell us about it ? Are you excited ? Are you nervous ?
Vin Jayum , yes , I'm very excited , very , very excited . It has been a long time coming . I've i've've had what most would deem a successful music career since 2019 . It is now 2024 , and I am now , for the first time , going on tour and in the beginning I was , and that is also the entire set list and the reason for this is because I want to cut out all as many variables as possible . You're already performing in front of a live crowd , so there's a variable every single night of how things can go .
Vin JayBut I've recognized for myself that most of the nerves come from anxiety of messing certain things up .
Vin JaySo I want to make sure that anything that could be messed up on my end is just muscle memory that I could do with my eyes closed , that if someone threw a box of nachos at me it wouldn't stop me , because I literally could do it in my sleep .
Vin JayNow , with that being said , because it's been so long that I've been rehearsing , no , my nerves have been eased big time because I'm confident in what I'm getting up on that stage to do . I'm confident in the message behind their song , in the songs that I'm performing , and I think when you , if you deep down , know , your songs don't have any meaning . You are way more nervous to get on stage because what you're saying has no intention and no purpose . So you're afraid that people aren't going to like it , and you should be afraid , because your music doesn't have any purpose . So , with that being said , that got a bit intense , but I'm passionate about it . I love it . So , with that being said , I'm excited because I think the song selection is great . I think I'm prepared , I think it's a long time coming and I'm confident in my music and the purpose behind it .
Aaron PeteOne of my favorite things we talked about this last time was that when you're going on tour , you're not really playing a song . That's going to do something . People are showing up to have an experience , to make memories , to be a part of a moment , and I think you really get that . I've done a few live events and I constantly , like I do my same prep work make sure I got my questions prepared , make sure that everybody's having a good night and they've got the food they want . But my mindset is so much more like make this fun , make sure people feel the variety of emotions and that they go through that , because that's what hits home .
Aaron PeteThat's where people go home and they're like I had a good night when you hit them with some sad songs . When you hit them with some pump up , you're going to take over the world songs . When you get that energy , that's what people walk away with and they go . That was a great night and I know that you get that and we had a great conversation last time about that . So I'm so excited for you because I think everybody who attends that is going to make so many good memories and be so happy that they came out and they participated . How can people grab tickets to this ?
Vin Jayyes , so you can get tickets . Um , I should know the link directly , but I do not . If you go into any of my social media pages , um , at real vin j on instagram , uh , same on twitter and I believe it's just vin j on facebook . If you go into the link in my bio on any of those that has my set page which has the link to the ticket
West Coast Tour Plans and Gratitude
Vin Jaysite .
Aaron PeteDo you know approximately which venues , like what areas , you'll be hitting ? I know you're not coming to Chilliwack , so I'm disappointed about that .
Vin JayYeah , I've got a few disappointed people , but unfortunately I'm I'm not in control of the route and um , and we wanted or rather management wanted to hit west coast first , so that's what we're doing . I got some east coast people mad at me , but I'll be over there soon and I would love to . I got international people who want me to come to as well and I would love to , but I'm getting my feet wet with the west coast first . Um , in terms of what cities am I doing ? I should know off the top of my head . I do not . Um , I could tell you roughly , I know we're going as far West as Cali . I think we're going the furthest East is like Ohio , which is actually like , uh , really loner over there . We're not really doing anything else over there , but yeah , a little Utah , a little Cali , texas , washington , so kind of pretty much the whole west side of the country , beautiful .
Aaron PeteVin , it's such an honor to speak with you every single time . Again , I just think you've got this unique philosophy that I really look up to , and I hear it in all the songs . I'm a huge fan of your work and it's always such a privilege when you agree to come on , because I'm like , yay , we get to speak again and I just enjoy your perspective on things . So thank you again for being willing to hop on .
Vin JayAnytime , and I appreciate you having me on . I very much enjoy our conversations as well , otherwise I wouldn't be saying yes so much . It's a good time . I think we have thought provoking convos every time and and yeah , it's , the respect is mutual for sure .
Aaron PeteIt sounds like there's a potential podcast in your future , so I can't wait to see that come to life and I wish you the best of luck going on tour and on your wedding . I'm so happy for you . You're really having things come together and that's just such an amazing thing to see .
Vin JayThank you , I appreciate that .
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