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BIGGER THAN ME PODCAST
Get inspired by people who make a difference bigger than themselves with host Aaron Pete. From overcoming obstacles to finding motivation, these guests will inspire you to dream bigger and strive for greatness!
Popular guests include Premier David Eby, Vassy Kapelos, Brent Butt, Ariel Helwani, Rav Arora, Tara Henley and the Millennial Therapist.
BIGGER THAN ME PODCAST
174. Mass of Man: Is Music a Tool for Healing?
Nico DeGiacomo, also known as Mass of Man, joins Aaron Pete to explore how creating music as an artist helped him confront challenges like depression and bullying. They discuss his powerful lyrics, collaborations with artists like Vin Jay and Gawne, and the healing role music has played in his life.
Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger Than Me podcast. Here is your host, aaron P.
Aaron Pete:What does it take to reach your full potential? What adversity do you have to overcome to get there? I'm speaking with an artist who's overcome bullying and depression and shares his journey. Through his music, we explore this and so much more. My guest today is Mass of man. It is an honour to sit with you today. I can't thank you enough for being willing to take the time. First, would you mind introducing yourself?
Mass of Man:My name is Mass of man. I do emotional hip hop music that talks a lot about mental health and personal struggles.
Aaron Pete:Yeah, Many have an origin story, a route where they start from, where they get into things. Um, can you take us back to the beginning?
Mass of Man:yes, uh, my brother when I was younger had a cassette tape black cassette tape. It was like a nwa and he's like see this music. It's called rap, it's bad music. I can listen to it but you can't, it's not good for you. And I was like, you know, piqued my interest and I was like okay, so I'm like I gotta hear this rap stuff.
Mass of Man:As I got older, uh, eminem came out. It was super popular, started listening to that very heavily. Uh, my dad had a. My dad was listening to it at the time. It was kind of crazy. So I was, I listened to it. A girl I was dating listened to him.
Mass of Man:I got into listening and loving how he rhymed words and put them together and kind of fell in love with it. By the time high school came, there was some kids rap battling in the lunchroom. The main one his name was James Travis went by MC Chex. I mentioned him in one of my first uh albums. Yeah, my first album, weight of Words. I mentioned him. Gotta pay my respects to MC Chex.
Mass of Man:If it wasn't for him my life would still be a mess, like I said that. Uh, he really like got me into it and stuff and we would just just rap out all the time in the lunchroom. And then I would go home and I got this Bob Barker-looking microphone from the Price is Right. It was like a computer mic and I downloaded Audacity, that free audio program, and I started making songs and doing some fun stuff and trying to create my own music. And it went from there and fell in love with it. I kept doing it and doing it and doing it. I was so proud of the process. It relieved so much uh, stress, uh from me and made me, you know, chill out when I was writing, you know depression is a reoccurring theme in your music, particularly with the song Fallen Angel.
Aaron Pete:Can you talk about how that topic has resonated with people?
Mass of Man:I created with Mack Harrison this song called Fallen Angel. It starts off. The lines were like hi, depression, how you been? It's been a long time we meet again and it was a dialogue between me and my inner depression and that is my most viral song to this day. It's definitely about 40 million streams or more right now between all platforms and stuff and it really changed Once that song took off. It really changed my music career and then I started putting out more stuff like that and I just built a really big fan base and audience for myself.
Aaron Pete:So may I ask when you have a song like that, the writing process to me seems like it would be really heavy. I know the song it's one of my favorite songs by you, um but it just feels like that amount of concentration to put that on paper, to share that, to voice that it sounds therapeutic. Are you able to walk away from that feeling and go have lunch and live a normal day? Yeah, 100%. When a song comes to you, does it carry with you a little bit.
Mass of Man:There are songs that carry with me. For example, I've had a song that I wrote that I completely broke down and was crying while I was writing it and that was when my friend passed away. I made two songs for him. I made the other side about my friend sean, who passed away, and I made not fair, and not fair was written the day he died and like though, that song like messed me up writing it, like I was in full-blown tears, crying as I was writing it. But as far as fallen angel, the writing process, it's kind of strange because I didn't prepare writing it, me and him suggested we suggest to each other we go to the studio just see what out. And it was the most natural song to write, because I've experienced it and he has too that it just came out within like two hours. So we just sat down there and we're just like let's write this song. My engineer was like messing around with the beat and we just created that masterpiece in like two hours. It just flew right out of us.
Aaron Pete:It was so easy to do because I guess it was so relatable and we had a lot to say about it, you know one of the other topics you cover is bullying, and I'm wondering how you were bullied, what those experiences were and how they came into the music um, so this is you I'm.
Mass of Man:I'm six foot six'm, 650 pounds right now. I was a big dude in fricking school. So I mean like I, but I was also super nice and gentle and didn't want confrontation, so, like as much as I could like scare people off, there was people that still messed with me. You know what I mean and I let it. You know I kinda I was. I was always the victim of it. I mean I never really fit in. You know I never liked school.
Mass of Man:I think that was the worst period of my life. I didn't want to go to school at all. I've had people throw food at me in the lunchroom while I was just sitting there eating food. I don't know. Like you know, I heard what they say about my weight and appearance and stuff like that. I heard what they say about my weight and appearance and stuff like that. I've heard girls gossip about like me and stuff like that.
Mass of Man:It wasn't really physical or being punched or hit or nothing in school like that, but it was all verbal and it really really messed with me because I was a really genuine nice person and just wanted to fit in, you know, and just wanted to fit in, you know, but as we became adults and got older and people matured, things did definitely become easier and I feel like I changed my life around with the music. So I mean things just became easier in general as I got older. But anybody who's in school right now and they think this is the end, this is all life's gonna be, is this torture? It's not. It gets better when you get out and and you're in the real world. I mean you do have to work but uh, and sometimes there are bullies in the work situation, but it's, it's a lot better.
Aaron Pete:You don't have to see those kids ever again that were assholes to you are you able to find peace with those memories and experiences Like I was overweight, I was called chubby chicken man and experienced some of that. But it seems like at some times success is its own kind of cure to those experiences, like the fact that you've kind of come out of it but at the same time people apologize to me, you know what I mean.
Aaron Pete:Like people in in my adulthood say man, I'm sorry for being such a jerk, you know yeah, but then the other piece is it also seems like there's sometimes fuel, that like it's not that you're holding them, a specific person accountable, but having those naysayers, having those haters when you're when you're in the studio or when you're you're getting ready to go and you're getting after it that knowing that there were those people can add like a little fuel to your flame. A little.
Mass of Man:Oh, it definitely does. Sometimes I'll write songs about people like that. You know what I mean. So it's just like they, you know. Whatever, whatever they say, it just doesn't bother me anymore. I'm at a place where reading hate online, I just don't care. I'm like there's so many more people that care about me that that doesn't affect me. You know so, and it just gives me fuel to prove them wrong, you know exactly so.
Aaron Pete:Do you feel like you have peace with, with that aspect of your life, and do you think most people are able to achieve that, and and how do they go about doing something like that?
Mass of Man:good question, um, I think I'm at peace with it now. I don't let those. Those days are rough for me, but they don't define who I am, you know. It doesn't define me that I had all those struggles, um, and I think I can't speak for everybody because I only went through my own situation, but I do feel there's hope that that's that's not. High school is not the end-all, be-all, you know where, uh, it doesn't stick with you forever. You could, you could move across, uh, the state and find peace somewhere else with new people that are just great to be around. There's, there's people out there for you.
Aaron Pete:You're not alone, you know this might be a tough question, but I'm just wondering. In canada we have a lot of anti-bullying kind.
Aaron Pete:I don't know if it's the same, but like this anti-bullying push yeah, we're recording from canada and so we have a lot of anti-bullying messaging, and the only thing that I think back on is some of those moments I wish hadn't have happened, like they're not fond memories, but like you don't know what turns you into the person that you are today. And some of those experiences may have shaped me into the person I am, so I wouldn't remove them if you gave me a magic wand and I could just erase that memory.
Mass of Man:Same? I don't think I would remove them either.
Aaron Pete:Yeah, how do we find that balance of wanting people to feel safe and and not overly bullied, not where there's harm, or there's people not wanting to be alive but having some adversity that helps shape them and strengthen them so that they can become the person they're meant to be?
Mass of Man:yeah, I, you're giving me deep questions, dude, I don't know. I think, like I said, I think we do need some hard, tough times in our life to learn how to deal with struggle, and like there's definitely going to be some kids that do it to you and I think sometimes it's good for you to kind of shape your future. Like, hey, I don't want to be like this guy who's doing this to me and you you know that because he's treating people badly. But like I I really don't know how to answer that question, man. It's like I think we need a little bit of it, but not too much of it. But like I don't know, I don't want to see people hurting or or, you know, wanting not to live anymore because somebody treats them a certain type of way. In some way it does develop thick skin, but it's not needed all the time.
Aaron Pete:Okay, my next question.
Mass of Man:I don't know how to answer that man.
Aaron Pete:I'm sorry, no worries. My next question is about how music plays such an important role when people are going through those things. To have an escape from their circumstance or to be understood as you described Eminem was for you is being able to have those voices you can turn to when it feels like you're completely misunderstood. How did that impact you, and what does it mean that you get to carry on that legacy for others?
Mass of Man:Oh, okay, I like this question I hear all the time. I get messages that I didn't ever think this would happen to me in my life. But I get so many messages like, hey, I was about to commit suicide but your song came on Fallen Angel and it really spoke to me and it made me not want to continue down the path I was going, or it made me feel understood. Some people look at me and they're like, why would you listen to sad music when you're depressed? And a lot of the answers my fans give me is because they go, because I feel understood and it makes me feel safe.
Mass of Man:It's not always about changing your mood. Sometimes it's about just feeling like someone else out there gets you and the struggle you're going through and you can like relate to. Knowing that someone out there relates to you is a very powerful thing, Like knowing that you're not alone, and I think that's the most, most like that's what I get from fans when they message me and I think it's very cool for me and sometimes it helps me continue doing what I'm doing, because sometimes I have really depressed days but there's so many people like, hey, man, we need you, you help us and it keeps me going.
Aaron Pete:I love that, because one of the things I struggle with is I don't think I often show outwardly my emotions, but on some of my best days the places I go to are sad music. I'm not always sure why that is, but it's. There's something comforting. Comforting in the sadness, yeah, yeah I get that too having people understand you during the heavy moments where maybe you don't feel like your. Your thoughts align with how people think you are.
Mass of Man:For sure.
Aaron Pete:You also talk about depression, as you've mentioned, and I'm wondering how you approach that as an artist, because one of the musicians I listen to a lot is Juice WRLD and I just think about a lot of where he was If you actually listen to the words he says. He says I am on a cliff, I am ready to fall into a burning hell. That is where I am, and he's just singing like he's making music, but like if you actually realize that that is actually where he was, because then exactly what he predicted many of his songs he predicted that he was going to die and then he died, and like there is this connection that you have to take in order to make a song. You have to go to a heavy place in order to make a heavy song. How do you maintain that relationship in a healthy way?
Mass of Man:Well, here's something Not many people know, that I am not as depressed as I used to be. I'm not in that same headspace that I was when I was younger. I'm doing better for myself, I'm learning. I still struggle with, uh, obviously, weight, um is my biggest struggle in life and the thing that I don't have figured out yet and, um, I will, you know, get depressed because of it. But when people hear all my depressing music, they genuinely think I'm super depressed.
Mass of Man:But I kind of know that my it's like a balance that I have to deal with, because I make depressing music.
Mass of Man:It sells, it works, it helps, you know Um, but whenever I make a happy song and try and like switch up, it's not perceived well. So I kind of have to like go back in my bag of when I was feeling this way or when I was feeling at this time, and kind of uh that the fans can digest, that I still feel proud of, that I can release you know what I mean Because I'm not doing as bad as I was. I'm not perfect, I'm not great, I'm not cured yet, but I just I feel like I put in a song. It's like if I make an album, they seem to embrace it. But if I'm making happy music, they try and tell me to change it. You know, in one of my songs it's just, it's hard. It's hard to give the fans what they want and still be like genuine. You know what I mean, cause it's like it's. It's hard. I think I'm stuck in this spot where I can't make any other music but sad music, which sometimes brings me down.
Aaron Pete:I'm not gonna lie, you know that's exactly what I'm thinking of, because nk-47 has that song. Is that what you wanted? And it's.
Aaron Pete:It's literally about the same idea that what brought you to the dance is a chapter of your life, but often you're ready to close that chapter and move on but they don't want to let you know but people know you for something and come back and they kind of just want you to wash, rinse and repeat the same type of music, because that's what they've come to know you for, that's your, your brand in their mind, and so it's hard to transition out of that over time. So now you're kind of linked to to, to your demons in a way, Like I see that for NF and his recent album, hope was his first step, kind of trying to get out of that world.
Mass of Man:And I think that was brilliant. I thought that was brilliant for him to do that. What were your takeaways?
Aaron Pete:from that, were there any lessons?
Mass of Man:Um, I'm like it's possible to get out of this cycle that I'm stuck in by slowly shifting my way in a digestible way, like the way he did. Hope was just crazy to me. It's like it still felt like the same NF, but it talked that there's hope and I feel like if he continues on with an album and there's, you know, more happiness that comes out of comes out. I think that's a cool way how he transitioned and I kind of want to take notes because he is my favorite artist. I'd do anything to get a feature with that guy. It's he's uh, him, eminem, macklemore, mgk, like. I listen to all hops and I'd love to tech nine.
Aaron Pete:I love to get a feature with those guys one day yeah, those are definitely voices that I that I turn to and I'm very impressed with. Another heavy topic you go through is domestic violence. How, how does how, do you resonate with that?
Mass of Man:so I this is. I wrote a song on domestic violence, but, but I want it was more of a storytelling song mixed with a little bit of reality for my life. At one point I was in the most toxic relationship, um and I. I was young, I didn't know that, you know, there was so many options out there, and you know, and I got with this girl who I'm not going to name any names, but, uh, she would you know, there was so many options out there and you know, and I got with this girl who I'm not going to name any names, but, uh, she would you know, bring me up, put me on a pedestal, then knock me down and then repeat and rinse and repeat, um, and it was just an unhealthy relationship.
Mass of Man:I'd be watching a TV show, cuddled with her on, uh, cuddled with her in, in the same room, my mom's sitting on the couch in the living room and this is when I was younger and I'm just watching a TV show of a girl who got her bra and panties on the show, and I'm just watching TV and she would smack me across the face saying you are checking that girl out. Very insecure girl and just didn't know how to handle her emotions. So she would always hit me because of it and I'm like man, you know, not too many people talk about like getting hit by, you know, the partner. So I kind of went on a storytelling two different storytelling songs about domestic violence.
Mass of Man:I'm going to be honest, I grew up in a good household. My parents treated me good. I didn't deal with violence as a child. My parents are great and I wouldn't want to have any other parents. But I took that scenario that happened in my life because it's happened with two different girls that have put their hands on me and I've never put my hands back. But I ended up twisting it into this domestic violence song. It's kind of how it was more of a storytelling thing. I haven't personally really like other than those incidents haven't really struggled with that and I don't want to, you know, lead people in the wrong direction.
Aaron Pete:So no, that's. That's a really important message to share, because, you're right, I don't think we hear that story very often in the challenges that you can be in.
Mass of Man:I don't think we hear that story very often in the challenges that you can be in, yeah, so I thought it was something to put out, but I, you know, I, honestly, if I could have redone it, I wish I would have put it out in the perceptive of a man getting domestically abused rather than the woman, cause I think that's not talked about enough.
Aaron Pete:You know Right.
Mass of Man:Yeah.
Aaron Pete:Can you, can you tell us about your writing process? How do you go about making a song?
Mass of Man:developing it, does it? How does it flow for you? Okay, so I have a routine like I will wake up in the morning, um, on days like some days, I'm like, okay, it's been a while I haven't made a song. I got to make a song to continue you know my music career and I will wake up in the morning. I'm like, okay, for this week I'm going to try at least an hour a day. I go get a coffee and I sit by the overlook, which is the, the, by the ocean, so just watching the waves crash in the water, and I just uh sit in my car, turn on beats and uh start writing. And if something doesn't come out, like doesn't spark within an hour, I'm like, okay, maybe today wasn't the day and I'll go try something different.
Mass of Man:I never go with a plan. Very rarely do I do that. Like well, I go with an idea and just start writing it. I will, whatever the beat inspires or whatever, you know the mood of the beat or whatever I I find kind of one like one starting line and then continue off of that. I continuously make a song out of one starting line of a song. So I'm like if I say, like two kids in a broken home. It slowly developed into a domestic violence song, or I'm like I don't want to go to school. Mom, the kids are mean, is the first line I come out with. It comes out as like, what victims did you know it? Just I base it off a starting line, what I'm feeling in the moment, what story can I tell, excuse me, what story can I tell, and things of that nature.
Aaron Pete:It's kind of how I do it there's this idea of like meeting the muse, and the muse being the place where creativity comes from, and that you, as a creator, have to, over time, start to like meet it in order for it to meet with you as well, and you have to come prepared, and sometimes it doesn't always show up. It sounds like that's what you're talking about, this idea of meeting the muse yeah, yeah, I, I would say so.
Mass of Man:I mean, there are some times where, like, I'm like I want to make a song about this exact topic and I don't stop until I do it. But that's a lot more stressful. So you know, stressful in the writing process when I can solely create and just like with listening to something and hearing the mood it sounds, and I'm like let's make an epic banger or like let's make. You know, the storytelling songs are sometimes are more planned out. If I have a storytelling idea, um, but uh, for the most part it's just like grab a coffee, go sit by the water and see what you can create listening to music in the morning, and that's kind of how I put out most of my stuff.
Aaron Pete:Was that a transition from it being a natural curiosity and kind of a personal passion to turning it into a structured, regimented approach?
Mass of Man:Yeah, I, I started when I first started, uh, write a song and to a random instrumental or I know the beats like a random, like metronome or something, and know the beats per minute, and then have my engineer when I go into the studio to create something from scratch. Um, there's sometimes where I literally go into the studio and he's creating from scratch, just creating a beat out of nowhere. I'm like I feel like writing something like this today and I'll create a beat out of nowhere and we just start writing as he's making the beat. So it's just like there's different processes but I think the most comfortable one that I am is literally hearing an instrumental and writing to it in the morning with some coffee.
Aaron Pete:Amazing. Where does your name come from?
Mass of Man:Okay, I'm a big dude. Right now I'm six foot six, 652 pounds. I just weighed myself that I'm not going to. I'm not happy with my weight. I'm trying to change it as we speak.
Mass of Man:But I was in mixed martial arts class. Uh, when I was younger and I had a friend his name's Evan. Um, he goes, dude, you're. He was, you're a man of mass, right. And I went by many different names. My first name, real name's Nico so and my last name starts with a D. So my first rap name was Nico D.
Mass of Man:That I didn didn't like it and we moved on and me and that friend evan, turned into legacy and his was dead star and we made a random mixtape called the legally legal um, and we had so much fun just messing around uh, writing music together. And then I'm like I don't like the rap, the two rap names I had. I gotta come up with something better than that. And he knew I was in the search for a rap name. So we were at mixed martial arts class and he like bumped into me goes, dude, you're a man of mass. And I said he goes.
Mass of Man:You know what would be crazy he goes if you made that your rap name, because it's the m-o-m spells out mom, massive man, he's a man of mass. You'll see, oh, it'd be cooler if we did mass of man, because it sounds like massive. You know what I mean. And we just just kept going and then we started cracking jokes like oh yeah, all of us walk into a bar, guy starts problems with us and we say we got mom in the club with us, you don't want to mess with us, and like, you brought your mother. Then I walk up, you know, just just just being stupid, and it just kind of formed the name and then I ended up getting it tattooed on me, you know so, and I stuck with it. It was weird how it happened, but it happened how do you feel about rap names?
Aaron Pete:because it's somewhat unique. It's it's one of the only music is one of the only areas where people have alternate personas that the world kind of knows about. In the business world you don't really have that as much. So what is it like developing a rap name?
Mass of Man:I feel developing. It's just, I don't know when it fits. You know it fits and like it made sense to me, um, but it's. I get to play this alter ego. You know that I, that I that I'm in love with, it's like, and a lot of people don't know like, okay, for one example, when I talk to girls, right, it's usually nerve wracking, as Nico, but when I talk to them and they know me already as massive man, easy, I can be the most confident person. Like, I'm such a confident person as Massaman, but such a shy, you know, don't want to speak up. You know, in my hometown, you know, I'm just like, very like, hey, you know, hi, how you doing, and they're like, hey, what's up? But you know, when I'm Massaman, it's two different people. I play it's like a character, like a persona. It's weird, but it's interesting.
Aaron Pete:The other piece we've touched on and I'm just I think everybody's on a journey of self-improvement, no matter where you're at, and I think there's something I believe it's an old Chinese proverb that you have to love the person you are today. That that is the starting point that you have to, wherever you are, whatever your challenges are, whatever you is the starting point that you have to. Wherever you are, whatever your your challenges are, whatever you'd like to improve, you have to love the person you are today and because that's where you're starting from, and then whatever trajectory you want to go on from, there is fantastic, but you have to love the person you are today.
Aaron Pete:And you talk, you talk about struggling with your weight and I'm just curious are you able to love yourself today for who you are, and is that a journey in and of itself? Because you're very kind and thoughtful and you're willing to do this interview. It's an honor to speak with you, but I'm just curious how you grapple with that.
Mass of Man:Dude. True answer. I'm not okay with who I am today. I want to improve. I'm not okay with who I am today. I want to improve. I want to do better. I want to. I'm just. The weight is such a strong journey that I deal with. I've lost it like three different times in my life and gained it all back and I noticed now when I'm posting TikTok videos, there's way more comments about my weight and like digs taken at me and insults because of my size. When I'm doing these Tik TOK videos, my videos are getting a lot more attention because people have something to talk about and a lot more views are coming from it and stuff like that. But you know, I, I want to. I I want to be healthier. You know, I want to be able to do things like when I was a kid, young and be agile and stuff, and I'm just like I'm fighting, I'm struggling to get back there.
Aaron Pete:So do you love yourself? Today, though?
Mass of Man:yeah, I mean, like I'm I, I love everything about my like character and things, but the one thing I don't love is how I've let it get this far Like love, how I've gotten, you know, this heavy and stuff like that. Yeah, so I'm working on an album and I have a song about it, like wanting to striving to be perfect, you know so.
Aaron Pete:Are you able to tell us more about that journey? Because it's one thing to make a song, it's another thing to make an album and try and have the stories connect.
Mass of Man:Can you repeat that question one more time? Say that one more time, I'm sorry.
Aaron Pete:You're working on an album. I'm just curious if you're able to give us insights into how you make this upcoming album, potentially because it's different than writing a song, because you have those stories somewhat connect more than just individual singles.
Mass of Man:It's just like kind of like a wacky album with stuff all over the place. I'm not going to lie, there's. There's a song about like finding your true love. There's a well like will I ever find the person? There's a song about like my weight. There's a song about like my weight. Uh, there's a song about me being bipolar. It's just like all different emotions packed into one.
Mass of Man:This whole album. It's like they connect in, like if you know me, they connect, but like, um, if you're just discovering who massive man is, it's going to be a roller coaster, right? So do we have a release date? No, we don't have a release date, but I have two out of three videos done for singles that we're working on. I want to release one single, hopefully, you know, if everything aligns right, in november, then another december, then maybe the album song comes out with the album, maybe, if I can get all the ducks in a row and everything edited and finished and all the songs done, probably January, late January, late February, late March, like somewhere in that three month period, maybe March seems like the most realistic, you know. So.
Aaron Pete:I'm excited Are you able to tell us some of the things you've been cooking up recently, because you have some fantastic songs with some pretty amazing features.
Mass of Man:So that Wait song has the big, like a really big feature on it. It's Chris Calico from strange music. He's done a song with Eminem and tech man on the same song which was called speed. Um, he's a really, really talented uh artist and really well known Um. I have. I can tell you the features I have on the album. I have my SETI who I work with quite regularly. I'm going to try and put Vinjay on one of the songs Again, love Vinjay's dope. I have NK-47 and Chase on another song.
Mass of Man:That one is called so Evil and we just shot a video to it. It was really fun. I just got done shooting two videos like two days ago, before this interview for the album. We flew uh anakin, who films all those guys videos to come film uh, my video uh, with these guys and I'm working on um. This album is going to be called dead man's paradise because we created, uh we created a song and that had the words dead man's paradise in it and it became the chorus and it's it's. It's different than what I normally do but it's very, very well done and I want to go all out for that video. So that's going to be the one that releases on the day of the album.
Aaron Pete:I cannot wait. You've also done some really cool features again with Vinjay and gone. Look at me. Now Can you talk about that song, cause that one was one where I also, like further, discovered you and started to do the deep dives.
Mass of Man:Yeah, so the first time I worked with gone and vin j on a song together is actually becoming my biggest song right now. It was. It's called lights out. Um, I posted a video on tiktok of it. It got 1.3 million. I know it got 3.2 million views on a tiktok clip of me just wrapping it on the microphone and I'm getting it. It's like 3 million on every other platform and it's skyrocketing up every day.
Mass of Man:And it was such a cool experience to meet with them. We went to this haunted overload house it's called Haunted Overload. It's like a haunted attraction and they let us film there and we did so many special effects. I was holding my own head in the video and this just it was super cool. And then once we did that song and it worked, I'm like, oh, look at me, now I got to have you guys again. You know. So I just I don't know. I love working with those guys. They're super talented. Ben jay has become such a good friend of mine. He's like I would consider him like I gotta go. You know, we gotta hang out all the time. Now he wants me to come up there. He's been here quite a few times now okay.
Aaron Pete:I just have to confirm for that song is that kid okay?
Mass of Man:because that kid's dude, I have that little child who ran through the video. He was the most dedicated actor I've ever seen. We hired him through an actor service thing and he watched us put on the makeup so he knew it was all pretend and all fake and stuff like that. And that whole Vin Jay scene where the kid was there and Vin Jay was there, being this demon with tentacles and stuff he didn't even know who he was, they never met. Being this demon with tentacles and stuff he didn't even know who he was, they never met.
Mass of Man:It was like someone was done on green screen with Vin Jay and the director was like look up, open your mouth, we'll let this the smoke's going to come out of it. Like we just coached him, like that he, we did parts separately you know what I mean but but together at the same time. So he saw me chilling there with my makeup and talking. I'm like, oh, dude, I heard you're doing such a good job. But uh, his mom and father sent me a video of him watching the video when it came out and he's like it's awesome, I gotta watch it again. And the sister, the little sister was scared of it. The kid loved it. Uh, he actually came back on another project with ben after doing that because of how much he loved it. So he looked like he got terrified and scared the crap out of, but he enjoyed the whole process.
Aaron Pete:That's amazing because, yeah, my partner and I were watching it a couple of days ago and I was just getting ready for this interview. I'm just like is this kid really that scared? It was just hilarious.
Mass of Man:He did a really good job at acting. He had to, like, pretend, fall through a floor and then we had to edit it that he fell through the floor and, um yeah, it was just like he saw. He saw all the makeup being put on so he knew who we were beforehand and he loved it and he was. He just followed directions. So well, his name is noah and he sat there for like 11 hours that day just doing listening to direction, which blew my mind as a kid that young like to follow directions that well was crazy to me.
Aaron Pete:No, your, your whole production on that video was just like really phenomenal in terms of the quality. You were like that was really like theatrical movie level, like footage. It did not feel like a I don't know. I watched some of these music videos and I'm like why did you, why did you make this? This is, this is just kind of somebody doing this and they're like it's not why this didn't need this music video and that was phenomenal so I with that video.
Mass of Man:Those are my more expensive videos that I work on. Uh, they're done with the guy who does joiner lucas's and tokens videos he used. He doesn't do joiners anymore. I think the last video they did together was uh, uh, the one with j cole and joiner. Uh, like I broke your heart. Huh, like that. It was that that song, um, but he did the I'm not racist video for joiner lucas, where the black and the white guy were sitting at the table and you know, having a conversation about race and he's got, and he was nominated for a Grammy for that video. Um, so he's, he's really talented. He works with some really big names interesting I'm.
Aaron Pete:I want to talk more about Vin Jay because he's become one of my all-time favorite guests. How did you two link up and what is it like to have a friend like?
Mass of Man:him. Uh, it's awesome to have a friend like him. He's such a nice dude and he's so down to earth and uh treats me really well. And, um, how I met him was, uh, I I've wanted to work with him. Uh, my friend at the time, cam, known as the real young swag, reached out and got a feature with him and cam really talked highly about me to vin.
Mass of Man:Um, and, uh, you know so vin then knew who I was and I said, hey, I'm doing this project where people are, you know, putting money behind it and stuff, and wanted you to be a feature. And I think the first song we did together was like kick rocks on that project, like now, I want to do actual projects that I run and have the control to. You know what I mean. Um, so he said, yeah, I'll do another feature for you and we made it work so and just became friends. He kept coming down here. It's like he came down like two more times, do two more videos and and we talk all the time on the phone, he does some of my live streams with me. He's just a great dude I couldn't agree more.
Aaron Pete:There's a few things I really admire about him. One it's nice and I think this is something I see a lot when I'm speaking to people from the us is there's an admiration for excellence, like there's a there's a drive towards not what everybody else is doing or what everybody else is focused on, but there's a drive to be your best self, to deliver the best product, to do the best you can. And I don't know, I just feel like a lot of times it's kind of like that, uh, that poppy season where people don't want you to get too high up. Know, I just feel like a lot of times it's kind of like that, uh, that poppy season where people don't want you to get too high up or too low, like we all just kind of want to fit in rather than doing a really good job, and vin's really good at admiring excellence and wanting to deliver excellence for people.
Mass of Man:So that's one piece that stands out to me so whenever I tell, like whenever I put somebody on a feature, I want them to do bad, Like I feel like I've done good at this song, that's why I'm passing it to you, Please outshine me. Please do even better than me. Like I don't care if you do better than me, it's just going to make the product better. You know what I mean. Like I want my friends to. I don't care if they have a better verse than me, I than me. I feel like I did phenomenal on this first and that's why I'm going to pass it to you Now. You do phenomenal, you know? So that's, that's kind of what we we do with each other. We're not very competitive. We want to see each other grow.
Aaron Pete:Like yeah, I really admire that. The other piece that I really like about Vin is that he wants to surround himself with good people, or at least that's like what I get to see from you guys is that you're all willing to support each other and see each other grow in the endeavors that you're passionate about, and I just I find that's really admirable and I see it more with artists and like music creators than I do in the podcast world, like I've had people on who have their own podcast. There's not that community spirit of like could we collab, could we do this, could we open Like. There's just more of a desire to collaborate and see everybody reach their full potential, which I really admire. Yeah, hell yeah. That leads me into another question about you.
Aaron Pete:One thing that really stood out to me, that made me excited to speak with you, was you arranging this, this, this um, this tour date with everybody, and you got every artist to create a small little video. And I was chatting with NK 47 on the phone and I was like, how did that come about? Like that's so cool that that happened. He was like man, that was all Nico. He set it up, he told us what he needed from us. We just had to deliver and so it made it easy, because I can get stuck in my head and stuff, and I really like that because it's a challenge to be, I think, an independent creator, to be trying to grow your own thing, and when you have somebody like yourself that's willing to say, hey, we've got this going on, this is what I need from you and we're going to make this great, I think that just shows your willingness to collaborate and help people reach their full potential. So could you tell us about that experience setting just just that whole, that whole video.
Mass of Man:So, um, I'm like, hey, I knew all these guys and they're all friends of mine, but they're also also friends with each other. So we looked at, this is like this this concert is this big hangout and nico is going to cover it all. Nico is, nico is going to get us all down here, nico is going to make it happen and we're all going to get paid. So we just, we, we just I just wanted to throw. I don't do many shows, so when I do, I wanted to make it big and grand. Um, so I flew all the guys out here and we got an Airbnb and I wanted to make this concert happen. I said, guys, I need you to send me photos of yours. I try to make it as easy as possible. I said, guys, I need, I need photos of all of you guys that you want to put on a flyer. I'm like. And then I said I want to promote this. So I'm like, what's the best way we can do it? I said what if we all say that I wrote up a quick script, right, and I just gave everybody the script?
Mass of Man:I said there's a teleprompter app so it doesn't look like you're reading off the script, gave them the app, gave them the thing. They they looked in the camera, made a selfie video while reading. But looking at the camera and it was, yeah, it was just like that. And they sent it to me and I had a video guy of mine chop it up and Binks, who also he does audio and stuff, do the audio for it. Just, you know, make it all sound kind of professional.
Aaron Pete:I just think you should be really proud of yourself for that, because A. It's hard to get people to do that type of stuff. Being in this world trying to get people to collab, trying to get people to share photos and stuff for the promotional part of it, I was on those guys.
Mass of Man:I'm like guys, hello, I need this now. I got you, I got you.
Aaron Pete:So it's a little stressful, but we made it work. Is that going to be more? Are we going to see more of that? Because I really like that style.
Mass of Man:Yeah, uh, to be honest, um, yeah, I like if you're asking if there's another massive test, everybody wants to do it. Uh, but, um, I'm worried about my weight being a factor. It was a huge factor when I was doing it already. I want to lose more weight and be more agile, to be on stage and not be so out of breath. But, yes, I'm sure something like that's going to happen again.
Aaron Pete:I'm super excited for it. My last question is what advice do you have for independent creators who are trying to figure out a way to go down this path?
Mass of Man:Well, I have quite a few advice. So here's one, one big advice Don't want to become a rapper for the fame and money. Do it because you have a genuine interest in it and it makes you feel good, because you're not guaranteed to blow up. You know what I mean? Um, and it's like any other business it takes money. To make money, you need to invest in studio time. You first, you need to invest in getting your skill to a point that it's worthy to invest in studio time and things like that. But just don't do it because you want to be a famous person and want attention, because it's just, it's not going to work out for you If there's going to be a lot of hard times where you're going to wonder if this is even worth it or not, you know, because if you're doing it for the wrong reasons, you're just going to fail. Is? You know how I look at it? But if you're doing it cause you generally love making music, the fame comes after, you know, after you put in all the hard work. And so, um, that's one piece of advice. Um, I want you to know that anything's possible and if you want to be a rapper, it is really possible because you have a passion for it. Um, it's not impossible. It is. It is a lot of grind in the beginning to build your initial fan base. Um, but it's not, because it's definitely doable.
Mass of Man:My parents told me, you know, like every other parent, it's once in a lifetime that someone discovers you and makes you famous and yada, yada, yada, stuff like the odds of you becoming a rapper are so slim. Think real, think real, you know, but I, I noticed that no one was going to come to save me and that's not how I was going to get there. No one was going to come scout me. I had to put in the work and build my own brand, and that's what I suggest you do. Don't wait for someone to give you an opportunity. Put in the work, invest in the studio time, make the constant content, get people to know who you are through you and what you do, and not hope someone discovers you one day because you're talented, because that's just not how it works anymore. People do not come and say, hey, you're talented, I'm going to throw a bunch of money at you. They look at how many streams you have, how you can make them money, and that's when they discover you and give you resources.
Mass of Man:I honestly prefer to be independent than having somebody take a percentage. Um, that's just me there's. There's definitely different routes you can go, but I do well for myself. Um, another piece of it I don't know. I mean, what other advice could I give? Uh, what other advice could I give? I have to think about it. Nothing's coming to me right now. Because that's the biggest piece of advice is do it because you love it, don't do it because you want what comes with it.
Mass of Man:I guess that would be the biggest piece of advice Beautiful.
Aaron Pete:And that it's possible. It is possible. Would you mind telling people how they can follow your work?
Mass of Man:check out your music, how they can connect with you. Okay, every website is backslash M-A-S-S-O-F-M-A-N, mass of man. You can find me by searching Mass of man on YouTube, mass of man on Spotify, itunes, apple Music. If you're having trouble remembering Massive man, remember that the acronym for it is MOM, m-o-m. Yeah, man, I have mad music videos out there. I have a lot of songs on Spotify. I have a TikTok. I have an Instagram, a Facebook, a YouTube. I have a lot of songs on Spotify. I have a TikTok.
Aaron Pete:I have an Instagram, a Facebook, a YouTube. I have it all Amazing. Thank you so much for being willing to do this and share so much of your personal experiences. I really appreciate it. These are my favorite type of interviews, because we actually get to know the person.
Mass of Man:Well, dude, I am honored being on here. I see what you're doing, and when me and Vin talked about you and your podcast like he doesn't have the craziest amount of followers, but he has potential I said let me see his videos. And yes, he does. I'm coming on, I said, because usually we gauge these things by how many followers people have. How much attention can it give us? But I saw your channel, I saw your camera quality. I saw your channel, I saw your camera quality, I saw how professional you were and I see you're building a brand that I think, long-term, it will be very good to get to know you and who you are, because I think you're going to do big things one day, dude.
Aaron Pete:I appreciate it. That's so kind of you to say. I feel the exact same way. Please go check him out on Apple Music Spotify. He's the man. I appreciate you being willing to share the time today. I've learned so much and I just feel honored that we were able to take the time.
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