Nuanced.
Where real conversations happen — with host Aaron Pete.
Nuanced.
205. Vin Jay: How to Break Cycles, Find Purpose & Build Discipline
Vin Jay joins to discuss discipline, breaking toxic cycles, purpose, and the making of his new album Good Company. The conversation explores his philosophy on growth, sacrifice, collaboration, and why discipline separates the 1% from the rest with host Aaron Pete.
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The biggest myth is that there is stagnation. There is no stagnation. There's growth and decay. Constant is change.
Aaron Pete:How do you develop that mindset?
Vin Jay:Our attention is like fucking water and miracle, bro. If you could put that on one thing and just cut out the fluff of how you spend your time, that thing is going to do better. How important is discipline.
Aaron Pete:It's the only thing that matters. If you've seen that in other people and like how that feels to watch people kind of get stuck there.
Vin Jay:Whatever safety you think you have, is you just withering away?
Aaron Pete:What was the thesis or the topic that you had as you were putting this project together?
Vin Jay:It's much easier to get taken down than to lift someone up.
Aaron Pete:Do you have any recommendations for people in that circumstance? You?
Vin Jay:cannot get these things that require blood, sweat and tears without sacrifice.
Aaron Pete:Vin J, I am so grateful to be having you back on, so excited to talk about your new album. One of the reasons that I love being able to speak with you is because you talk about this idea of being a young prophet, and a prophet is somebody who comes in with a message, often coming from a higher power, sharing truth, something on morality or the future, and I feel like your music hits on that so well. Something on morality or the future, and I feel like your music hits on that so well, and I'm just so excited to be able to talk about this album and and what you've been going through cutting out toxic people, reaching your full potential and and trying to live a meaningful life. So just thank you so much for being willing to come back on, because these are such important topics to discuss.
Vin Jay:Yeah, Thank you for having me. You know we have a blast every time we do this. I like diving deeper into the art and every aspect of it, so I'm excited.
Aaron Pete:Can you catch us up? What's been going on since we last spoke? Any big reflections, any big news to share?
Vin Jay:I just had my first child. He is six months old. So that is, as you can see, the dad gang hat I'm repping it proudly um, also probably an extra bag or two under my eyes, but yeah, that has become the biggest change life-wise so far. And uh, just learning how to uh balance work with it as well, because, as you know, to uh to make it in music, I think personally you need to be a bit obsessed and it needs to kind of be all or nothing. So learning how to balance this, what has been an obsession for me for so long, with something that I deem much more important than my job, has been interesting, to say the least.
Aaron Pete:Can I ask what was the timeline of the starting the album process and having the child? Was it at the same time? Were they far apart?
Vin Jay:uh, they overlapped because I didn't know I was making an album until it was halfway done. You know, I was like making just songs. Then, all of a sudden, I'm like man, I haven't released an album since. Oh my god. My last album album was human experience, which was 2021. So I was like hold on, I think I have like seven unreleased songs right now. I was like I'm like a few away from having an entire album. So if I'm just a bit more intentional with the direction of the rest of these, squeezing in as much studio time as humanly possible, before both of our children got here, our kids are like a week apart. Wow, we were just linked, like just locked in for months because we're like we got x amount of time to like really hustle so when you started on the album process did, did you have the human experience?
Aaron Pete:What I love about it is it really does kind of go through like a growth period, like what it's like to start figuring out where you want to go. Then you tell your family how they react and you tell your friends how they react and the pushback that you might receive and just kind of the journey of growing up and finding yourself. What was kind of the thesis or the topic that you had in your mind as you were putting this project together.
Vin Jay:Yeah. So this one is very different than human experience, and my favorite thing about projects personally is that when I go back and listen to them years later, I can hear exactly where I was at that point in time, because I don't even like I listen to human experience. I'm like damn, I remember who I was mentality-wise during this album and I'm not the same person anymore. Maybe in some regards I am, but there's so much evolution Going into this album though, like I said, I wasn't even intending to make an album, so the way the message panned out was different, because it wasn't set in stone from the beginning.
Vin Jay:I realized that a lot of the songs I had that were done had features on them, right, and I was like damn, I should make an album, but I don't want an album full of features, because the fans they want to hear me right If they wanted features they'd go elsewhere and uh, all that. But I was like, hold on though. I'm like what if I lean into having a lot of features? And that's the entire concept and we can call it good company, because, you know, I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by this network of extremely talented people and I think when you collaborate with people, beautiful things happen. So I was like, let's start there and and see how that affects the sound when we introduce others into it and their ideals as well. So that's, that is the defining moment for the album, and once we shifted towards that direction, it the whole project became extremely collaborative.
Aaron Pete:I love that because one of my questions was going to be about how you came up with the name, and it's interesting that you say good company in terms of the company that you keep, because I was also thinking I know you like understanding business and finance and so you also are running a very good thinking.
Vin Jay:I know you like understanding business and finance and so you also are running a very good company, I imagine. So that's the second double meaning of the album name as well, which is why the logo on the album is a barcode and has like rainbow paint dripping from it. The concept of the artwork, as well as the name, is that music is inherently a business right Because there's money to be made from it. Hence the barcode. Now, all that like paint that has the entire color spectrum dripping from the barcode is the soul that inevitably is going to poke through that business, just because of what music is and how powerful it is. So a little double meaning of the term. Good company there, for sure.
Aaron Pete:I love that. And then you can see kind of the high rises and that also just makes me think of New York and business and that that's where you go Wall Street, all of that work where people are trying to grow their businesses.
Vin Jay:Exactly, I'm very, very happy with how the artwork came out. I think it made a lot of sense for what we're trying to grow their businesses. Exactly, I'm very, very happy with how the artwork came out.
Aaron Pete:I think it made a lot of sense for what we were trying to do. I couldn't agree more. I also liked I think I mentioned this to you via a message that I liked the color tie-in and it just looked like human experience and high frequency being tied together and Young Prophet being tied together.
Vin Jay:I could see that. I could definitely see that.
Aaron Pete:Okay, so are you ready to dive into these songs and go through them? I want to get your take on a bunch of them.
Vin Jay:Very ready.
Aaron Pete:Okay, so let's start with Trouble you talk about staying true to yourself and using negativity from others as fuel. Fictional, I'd say you've hit your pinnacle if your life wasn't miserable and I ain't hating, I'm just stating the truth If I was hating, I would hate to be you.
Aaron Pete:And I'm just wondering how do you develop that mindset? And if somebody wants to start doing that because we get so lost in going well, like this person's like crapping on my idea or they don't believe in me, and like it's a transition in your mind to take that and go oh, I'm going to go run with that, how did you develop that and how do others follow in that same path?
Vin Jay:So personally, for me it was like a knee jerk reaction to react that way. I guess I think the most ideal thing you can do is not let anyone's opinion matter to you, period. Whether positive or negative, it just doesn't affect you. It shouldn't. The noise they make should have zero effect on you. However, if you're like me and most people, you can. It should piss you off when people doubt you right, because you know what you're capable of. If you have a shred of self-confidence and think you're capable of more than you currently have, it should get, give you a bit of an emotional reaction on the inside that causes you to want to prove them wrong. It's the whole concept of like reverse psychology, right. If you want someone to do something like, oh I bet you can't do that, right. So for me, it's always been a real driver. For me, when I'm doubted or people look at me as less than it's like, I feel this undying need to prove that now. Is that healthy? Probably not, but does it make for good music and and success stories for sure?
Aaron Pete:The other piece that really stood out to me was this idea of like it's dangerous to stay where you are and not chase your dreams.
Aaron Pete:And I think that that sometimes gets lost on people because they go well, like it's a big risk if I take the leap and I go for what I really want to do. Say you're like an artist and you're like, oh, that's a big step and like I'm putting it all on the line. But if you're working a nine to five that you hate, your life is quality is going to go downhill. You're going to become more miserable. You you're going to become more miserable. You're going to take that out on the people who surround you and the quality of your life is going to become something you don't want to endure anymore. You're going to lose good connections with people. Like that's staying where you are can seem like the safe path at times, but I really like that you point out that like that's just as much a risk to stay where you are than to kind of move on and I'm wondering if you've seen that in other people and like how that feels to watch people kind of get stuck there.
Vin Jay:Yeah, I've seen it in myself at certain points. The biggest myth is that there is stagnation. There is no stagnation. There's growth and decay. What looks like stagnation? Is you decaying? Go, look in nature. There is nothing that is stagnant. You are growing or you're dying. The only change I'm sorry, the only constant is change. So, whatever safety you think you have, is you just withering away? I think it is.
Vin Jay:I think we all need some sense of purpose and wherever you find that is on you. But that's when I've noticed, when I'm doing great in life versus when I may be doing poorly or not feeling as great or not making the right decisions, it is when I lack purpose chasing a goal that feels purposeful to me. That, I think, is everything. And the second you start to lack that purpose or ignore what you know would be purposeful for you, is when you start to slip into decisions and habits that are just going to continue to feed that withering process that you're in, because you need something to fill that hole. I think as humans, we desire and seek that purpose in something and when we're not going for it even though we should be, everyone knows deep down we need to numb that with something Right, and this is not me hating on video games.
Vin Jay:I play them all the damn time. But video games are a good example, because it's like, okay, I'm not making strides in my actual life that feel purposeful, but in this game I can level up to level 90 and my character can become stronger, and so you're just replacing it. On the other hand, if you're not even replacing it with video games, you're just numbing the fact that you're not doing it at all through alcohol or food or drugs or fill in the blank scrolling, doom scrolling. So I think that purpose is so freaking important and you can see the effects when you start to stagnate. Quote unquote.
Aaron Pete:In that same vein, it feels like to me you're an expert in taking one of the biggest risks I feel like there is. We know how challenging the music industry is. We know how many people want to take their passion and turn it into a career or a business and grow their influence and their impact on people. But when you first say I want to become a rapper and I want to do that as my full-time job, that's a massive bet on yourself. And so what recommendations would you have for people who are like I know where I am isn't good. Maybe I'm working at a grocery store. Maybe I'm working that regular nine to five. That's not meaningful. How do they make some of those small steps? Because obviously you can't just quit your job and hope for the best. You gotta do the work and build to it. Do you have any recommendations for people in that circumstance?
Vin Jay:Yeah, be very honest with yourself about how you're spending your time. Currently. You have two things. When we get down to it, you have time and your energy. And your energy can be directed widely amongst many things or extremely narrow towards one thing, and our attention is like fucking water and miracle grow. If you could put that on one thing and just cut out the fluff of how you spend your time, that thing is going to do better. So if you're in that situation where you work at the grocery store, I want to know what you're doing with the rest of your fucking time. The rest of it.
Vin Jay:You got to be willing it sounds corny, but you have to be willing to cut out sleep. You have to be willing to give up leisure. You cannot get these things that require blood, sweat and tears without sacrifice. I was this video I watched the other day said it's a you want what 1% of people have, but you're not willing to do the shit they're doing, and that's the shit that 99% of people won't do. That's why they're the 1%. You want what they bled for, sweat for and cried for, and you want it for free, but it doesn't come free.
Vin Jay:So to that person I would say every waking moment that you have that you can direct towards chasing your dreams that won't take away from other things that are very important in your life should be directed at it, point blank period. It gets really simple when you get down to it. You have to want it bad and every ounce of energy you can devote towards it needs to be devoted towards it. It's very black and white Now I will say this. There's different people in different scenarios. Some people are a 17 year old who want to learn how to rap right or be a rapper Very different story. Cut out all the bullshit you're doing and put all your eggs in that basket. You're young, you're dumb. You have nothing to lose for someone who's 28 and has a kid and a decent job that maybe they're concerned about losing because it supports the family Completely different story. That is where I say devote all the time that you can that won't take away from important things to grow that seed.
Aaron Pete:The other piece that I think is interesting to get your perspective on, because I think and you can correct me if I'm wrong I think you may have sometimes an addiction to discipline in like a really good way, where you try and lock yourself into a routine and sometimes that can have negative impacts. But how important is discipline?
Vin Jay:it's everything. It's the only thing that matters, bro, it's have you ever had a talk with someone and hyped them up through the words you've said? You've given them real, like sage advice, and they're like you spoke life into them. And now they're excited. And then the next week they're being a fucking idiot again. It's like clearly the motivating doesn't work or these moments of inspiration. You need to show up for yourself all the time, every day, because of that requirement of energy and attention.
Vin Jay:And the reason a lot of people fail and we've spoke about this multiple times, excuse me, the reason so many people fail is because they don't want it as bad as they think they fucking want it, or they don't have a strong enough. Why, right, if, if you uh, what's this video I saw? It's like uh, I asked everyone in the room what percent chance do you think you're going to make a million dollars this year? Right, and everyone's like zero, zero, zero. Some people like one exuberant people like five, maybe I can make a million dollars this year. And then they said if everyone in your family was going to die, if you didn't make a million dollars this year, what are the chances you're going to make a million dollars and they're like oh, 100%. So what changed? It's the why, how dire this is to you. So I think you need to switch how dire what you want is for you, because that's going to directly impact how much you show up for yourself.
Aaron Pete:I couldn't agree more, and it's. There's something I don't know if you I imagine you do experience this in some of the moments where you don't want to do it the most, but then you do it, Like I think the gym is a usual example people think of, but when you have emails to do or when you have things to follow up on, when you do it, when you want to do it the least, that's where I feel like confidence and real self-respect comes from, because you're like oh, I'm the person who does it. When I'm tired, when I don't want to do it, when I want to go to sleep, when I want to chill, when you do it. In those moments there's just something different about that energy.
Vin Jay:Yeah, because if you do it when just when you want to do it, then you're everybody else. You're not separating yourself at all. Everybody does shit when they want to do shit. The thing that separates you and puts you above the rest and gets you what the rest don't have is showing up when you don't want to show up, because that's when everybody quits. That is the one thing that separates you and the thing that takes you from a slight outlier to the 1% is doing that fucking 20 fold more than everybody else. The more times you can do that, the more you're separating yourselves. So you're doing shit people aren't doing.
Aaron Pete:You're going to get shit that people don't have.
Aaron Pete:It's that simple. The last question on this song, and it's just on the vein of what you're describing, I see a lot of hate on people like Jeff Bezos, elon Musk, like people who are really, really financially successful, and part of me goes like, obviously they make mistakes, they're human beings. But the other piece seems like we really like as a culture, we don't like when people are this successful, like it offends us in some sort of way and I'm wondering how do you digest when people are like oh, screw Elon Musk or screw Jeff Bezos, and they're crapping on these people who have done like, no matter what you think of them, they've done incredible things with their life, and there just seems to sometimes be this pop-up of jealousy like how could they be so rich, how could they be so successful, how dare they do that? And it's almost like it's a reflection of what we chose not to do and I don't think you need to go to their extent. Like every person needs to do that, but like, how do you process when you hear those types of comments?
Vin Jay:I stay far away from people who talk like that, but if I was to talk to someone like that, I agree with you very much on the reflection aspect of it. I think when you see someone doing better than you, it's holding up a mirror to you as to what you are capable of achieving. And if that thought scares you or you're you've been trying to numb it, run away from it then these visceral reactions come out and it always comes out as anger and hate and victimization. Um, also people who complain about other people having a bunch of money because they created a lot of value for humanity, like you, don't understand how money fucking works. Anyway. And again, not talking to you, not because I need to avoid certain people, I just don't want to. I'm just not gonna have a good time talking to you that's fair.
Aaron Pete:Uh, the next song is prayed up.
Vin Jay:Grateful baby, just being grateful, no matter what. We go through the fire sometimes, sometimes we may talk a little too crazy, but through it all, through it all, I stay prayed up. I stay grateful, I stay blessed. Through it all, I stay prayed up. I stay grateful, I stay. I'm blessed. All of that, I'm prayed up. The good energy, good vibes connected with God, prayed up.
Aaron Pete:Can I just ask like I've? I think a lot of people are going through kind of a Renaissance of faith, of believing in things bigger than themselves and one of the pieces that, like I grew up as a Catholic so we had, like these typical things you say for grace or before you eat, and then I've seen other people do it where they're just being, as you said, grateful before they eat, grateful for their life, grateful for the fact that they have access to food. We see around the world that, like, people are still starving and so just trying to work through the fact that I think being grateful is something we can kind of move on from and as we work through, I think, a lot of things in the West, being grateful that we have the quality of life we have in comparison to people a hundred years ago, sometimes gets lost and I'm just wondering how do you keep that when you've continued to grow so much that it's easy to almost take it for granted?
Vin Jay:That's something I've struggled with. Man, being highly ambitious and grateful is a tough fucking seesaw to operate. It's just taking inventory, man. When I look around at what my life is today and everyone wants to be Russ and Drake or at least have the level of success that they've had right Financially and musically. But when I look at my life right now and everything that God has given me music aside, dude, a faithful, beautiful wife inside and now a healthy son that wakes up and smiles at me every single morning, I'm in a home that you know.
Vin Jay:And is it a mansion? No, but, like I know people my age who wish they had a home and it's. We have a roof over our head, clean water, food. And when I take inventory, it's not hard to be grateful and thank God because all of these things that are going right we take for granted because they can easily be going wrong. There's a million ways that all these things can go wrong and they're just not. So it's not difficult for me to be grateful. Sometimes, you know, emotions run high and, oh my God, this thing is happening and it's annoying, but you got to like, you got to get away from that and really take stock of what's going right in your life?
Aaron Pete:Okay, I have a really important question for you, and I don't know how it works, so I need you to explain it to me. How do the lyrics work on Apple music? Why does it not go along with what you're saying on every song? How does it work? It drives me nuts when I have to scroll through and follow along with the lyrics.
Vin Jay:What is going on? That is on me. That is me being a lazy bum, and when I upload my songs to distributors, I don't put the lyrics in there. So Apple Music's like I'm just going to figure it out, I'm going to guess the lyrics and apparently they don't even scroll. So that's on me.
Aaron Pete:I got to take care of that of that okay, because I was wondering if they make you like pay an additional fee or something, because when it flows with it it's so engaging and we'll just put it up while we're driving and we'll just have the lyrics going, and then we're like what the heck? Like how does this work? And then it's for some, but it's not all of them and we're like oh, this is like a like journey, like we want to hear the lyrics, we want to follow, and so I was just curious how that all braved.
Vin Jay:Yeah, I'm, I'm definitely. Uh, I am like an artist artist where I am so in it for just I want to create the best music and then give it to the world that sometimes I let the logistics fall to the wayside never the business aspect of it, but the logistics of it. Sometimes I'm like this is not necessary.
Aaron Pete:So that's where we're at with that, fair enough. As a fan, I hope you do it, because it's a pleasure to see the like, the skill and like just. I don't know if you watch shows with captions, but it just helps you understand what's going on. So much, so much better, cause when you go really fast it's like oh no, I I've lost it, like it went too fast, I need need to slow it down. The next song is war and I'll be honest with you, I was super excited to see the song because I've seen Echo and Nate Vickers do the style before of the rock rap is that? Did you see that going on? And go like, oh, I want to get involved in that, or how did that song come about?
Vin Jay:no, how did that one come? I was just scrolling on BeatStars on a producer's page who I rock with a lot. His His name is Pendo46. He's done plenty. He did Shady, he did Goat, he did this and probably a few more. To be honest, I found that beat.
Vin Jay:I ended up singing my own hook, which was not the one that's currently on it, and then I wrote that verse and the verse just felt so big and inspirational and like we were just like getting after it that I was like this hook is not good enough. I need a rock singer on this. Who's going to drive this home? I sent it to Nate first try. He sends that back to me. I was like dude, this guy's incredible.
Vin Jay:It's it's rare that first try people knock it out of the park. He'd be like I like it, but switch this and change this part Instead of going up, go down, change this word to that. First try. He sends me that. And then, of course, like Echo, I heard him all over that. Shit Me and Echo. When we send each other songs, it's got a real specific energy to it. I know when it needs Echo on it, and the fact that Nate was on it just made it make even more sense, cause when they collab it's magic, so that one kind of just created itself Once, once the verse was laid down it was an.
Aaron Pete:It's an incredible song. It's one of my favorites on the album by far because of that flow and that energy. But I also like just thinking back, the reason I love the album so much is because it's like there's so many Easter eggs and I just as I mentioned to you I think privately I discovered you through the song Villain that you did with him. Like that's where I first found you, and then like listen to all your songs and all your albums and I've been following ever since. So it's cool to see that door open and then see this song come about. But I also feel like you and Echo bring out like a gritty energy to each other and it's like a heaviness. But it's also like it's this weird balance of like it's heavy but like I'm gonna go get after it even though everything's heavy, and I just I really enjoy that style of of topic yeah, I feel that that's kind of my bread and butter spot, and it's not.
Vin Jay:I'm not making songs like that every day because I'm a human being, but when I do get that energy, it is true that like Villain kind of has that same raw, rugged energy I feel you. And we have another song that's unreleased right now. I'll show it to you once we're off the podcast and it's the same thing, like very different sonically but energy wise it's, it's motivational and I don't know. I think every artist has a space where they overlap with another artist. Sometimes it's huge, sometimes it's a bit smaller. I think me and echo that's where we overlap very well and that's why it becomes so like uh, cohesive when we come together on songs like that.
Aaron Pete:I love that because when I think of you and Anakin, like you have this ability to pass the beat back and forth like it's a ball and I find that's your guys' style together when you do Sedona or when you do other songs together, like that's your guys' skill set together, so I like that. Do you know that? Going into the song? I guess skill set together, so I like that it'll. Do you know that? Going into the song, I guess you said that you saw like you could hear echo on that song before it even happened.
Vin Jay:Yeah, so in terms of finding out where I overlap with another artist when I hear their music, I could generally understand where we would overlap, me and nk, just had this conversation a few days ago for ourselves, um, and with canon, let's say, or anakin, I'm sorry, specifically um. Now that we've made a bunch of songs, I know exactly where we overlap it is. It's swaggy lyricism, it's it's a bit more braggadocious and more of like a bop to it than aggression, and that's where me and him overlap big time. We're gonna bar out, but it's gonna. And that's where me and him overlap big time. We're going to bar out, but it's going to feel smooth. It's going to feel real smooth.
Vin Jay:Nate oh my God, I'm calling everyone by their real name, I apologize. Nk. Me and him overlap in a completely different space. So he's making a dark pop currently, right, but before he started doing the dark pop he can wrap his ass off as well. He's just got a bit darker of a style than I do. So the place we overlap for sure is like lyricism and chopping up a little bit, but maybe more in an emotional space. So we can chop and and be lyrical, but with a bit more introspective nature to it.
Aaron Pete:Yeah, I love that One of the lines that I wanted to get your thoughts on, because we get these kind of phrases and then we almost like disconnect from what they mean and I always feel guilty when I go back to listen to old songs that I almost don't hear the lyrics the same way I did the first time I heard it, Like it smacks you upside the head when you hear a good line and then over time you almost get used to it so you stop appreciating the line. But life is a battle of will. I really like that and I'm wondering if you could share your thoughts.
Vin Jay:Yeah, that's a deep question. That's a deep question, um, I think. I think a part of this life and this reality, a very important part of it, is for us to go through things period, because they shape our soul and and craft it and bring a bit of, they build like the character of our soul, and I think that is actually like a feature of this life and not a bug. I think. I think the problems are intentional for us to overcome. So when I say this life is a battle of will, I mean that like bar for bar. I think that's the fucking point of this shit to for us to overcome again and again and again, to shape and mold our souls so that, whatever you believe in, when, when this life is over, our soul is a bit more weathered and wise because of the problems that we had to overcome. I think it's like a bit of a school for your soul to an extent.
Aaron Pete:I love that piece because there's those lines where it goes like if you ask God for strength, do you think he gives you an easy life, or do you think he gives you something to overcome? If you want confidence, do you think he tells you you're doing a good job or does he give you a challenge to face? And changing your mindset to seeing barriers as opportunities is something that becomes cliche, but if you can actually do it, it's really rewarding.
Vin Jay:Absolutely. I picked up boxing probably like eight months ago and just so I could get some exercise in, also tighten up on my fighting skills and all that. It has become so much more than that because it sucks. Getting punched in the face is not fun, right. Nor is pushing past your cardio point when you wanted to die fucking 10 minutes ago. But putting yourself to the fire like that on a regular basis and you see yourself progressing over a long enough period of time that it is such a good metaphor for life and that's why I love it so much.
Aaron Pete:It sucks so bad that I love it there's a really specific moment when you have a friend that I wanted to get your thoughts on from this song, because you talk about how you have friends telling you to neglect your dreams, and there's these. As you're growing, you start to move up beyond one of your friends or one of your peers, and how they respond can be so tragic if they don't want you to keep going because it sets you on a path of going in different directions. Like I think you're a person who likely goes okay, I need to back away from those people if they're going to bring that type of energy into my realm. But that's also like can you help them out of that mindset? Like there's an urge to, like can I get you back on the right track? And so I'm wondering when those moments have arisen for you. How do you find that balance of trying to help them move in the direction you're moving while also not letting yourself get sucked down and weighed down by them?
Vin Jay:That was very well worded, that last part you. But you should only do so with your overflow of energy and not take from yourself, especially if they are not willing to make those changes right. Lead a horse to water can't make a drink, but if you have so much overflow that something you're able to do for them doesn't take anything from you. And I don't mean money, I just mean like this is nothing off my back, it's barely going to require any energy for me, maybe a conversation, maybe I extend an olive branch of an opportunity, and it could help them drastically.
Vin Jay:I think you need to like pursue those moments and help the people around you. Just don't do it to a point where you are pulling yourself down. You can only uplift someone from a place that is greater than the space they are in. So if you try to stoop down stoop down is the wrong term, but I think you understand. If you try to go down to their level because you feel like that's what's going to help them, it never will. You can't help someone from the same space as them. It's much easier to get taken down than to lift someone up. So I think you should lift everyone up, but not at the cost of you getting pulled down vibrationally, so to speak? How?
Aaron Pete:do you approach letting those people go? Have you had to do that in your life? And like it's almost like grieving a person who's still alive yeah, um, I think I think it's just about understanding.
Vin Jay:I think when you understand what is important to you and why you need to do the things you're doing, it just just it doesn't hurt as much as as you would think. Um, I know everything that I do now is for my son and my wife. I am a provider for my family and, even beyond that, the people in my uh, you know nuclear family my mom, dad, sister, so on and so forth. I it is my responsibility to a certain extent, to make sure that everyone is never in a really bad spot, and if someone is hurting, then I am capable of uplifting them, because I should do that. So if there's someone in my life who is making that more difficult for me or less likely, it's not hard for me to be like. This person can't be a part of my ecosystem because they're hurting the only thing that actually matters.
Aaron Pete:Fascinating.
Aaron Pete:The next song is kill shot I never knew that I would grow to be a target through the popular demand and overshadowing these artists. They're all declining while I'm cornering the market. You can either play a part or be a product of the carnage.
Aaron Pete:I'm too cocky to fail. I gotta prevail. That's why I stay locked and this is where, like I, I like albums, because I feel like there's a logic to what's taking place and the flow from war into killshot really ties nicely together. Was that intentional?
Vin Jay:yes. So once the album is finished and I feel like I have all the appropriate energies that are required for an album, some introspective records, some bangers, some, you know, fill in the everything in between from sad to introspective, to motivational, to I just want to make a fucking hit and scream at people. Once I have all that, the flow is very important for me. I think trouble feels very introductory. It starts with chatter and these like sirens, and then the first time you hear my voice it says we're about to start trouble, which I think feels like oh shit, here we go and then we kind of make our way where we kick off with bangers because you have to Right, and then we start diving into a little introspection as the album goes on and at the end we finish with Beast on the 6th because I want fireworks at the end. So I'm very intentional with the way that I structure the albums.
Aaron Pete:Fascinating. The song On your Mind is one of my favorites.
Aaron Pete:It is, I think, rebecca's favorite right now, because you have these really great lines, like again going back to this idea of seeing everybody jogging in place, down in their identities, trying to ride the coattail and follow as you win it, and then they're gonna claim that they was down from the beginning and watching that happen and seeing people again maybe doing these nine to fives, maybe doing the best they can within that role, but like they're they're not going anywhere and they don't have to your point, that purpose that's driving them to something inspirational.
Aaron Pete:And like it's such a pleasure to be able to interview you because it's an honor to look over and see someone else just giving it 115%, like just going full force at their craft, and I know that that's more your world. Like you're surrounded by people with that mindset, but in the podcasting world we have that to a lot less extent. And so to be able to like chat with you and hear you being like I'm just grinding, I'm putting in the work on these songs I know that you have such a high bar for what you're willing to release to just work with and speak with individuals like yourself is it adds that fuel to the fire. And then when you see people jogging in place, it's like it's almost like they're just missing the opportunity to like live their life fully.
Vin Jay:Yeah, I agree and, uh, I. If you want to live a less purposeful driven lifestyle, that's on you, go ahead. I'm not going to yell, you don't have time, don't have the energy, but don't give me fucking advice. Go ahead. I'm not gonna yell. You don't have time, don't have the energy, but don't give me fucking advice. Stupid, I'm not, I don't care. I don't care what you say. That's, that's. My biggest issue is like, do you and I don't care? The crazy thing is I'm doing me and you care. Why do you care what I'm? Just focus on you and the fact that you lack the self-awareness to even think you should be telling me what to do is nuts.
Vin Jay:My biggest like pet peeve with people in general is lack of self-awareness. That shit drives me up a wall. Whether it's situational self-awareness or just like you don't even understand who you are as a person, where your flaws are, your faults, your positives. I have such a hyper, like, like OCD view of all my shortcomings and places. I thrive in that.
Vin Jay:When people completely lack self-awareness, it blows my mind. I'm like my self-awareness and I'm saying this to like a detriment at a point, my self-awareness. I lose sleep over how self-aware I am because, like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. Oh my God, why am I doing this? I could be doing this better. So yeah, when people, people who are doing jack shit with their life, and then give you, uh, what's the word? I'm looking for Advice I was not even asked for. It's just bananas to me, it's so crazy to me. I talk to my wife about it all the time. I'm like can you imagine just walking around and waking up every day and having that little self-awareness? Your head is la-la land. I can't imagine what living in your brain is like.
Aaron Pete:I completely agree with you and I think the big tragedy and I think about this a lot is we often end up giving more time to people who pull that type of crap in our life than the good people who are just on our side backing us, like if somebody pisses you off or me off, like I kind of go like well, why are they like that? Why are they doing this? How did they end up here? How do I resolve it? How do I touch base with them? How do I word it? How do I make sure I approach it in the right way? And I get. I could spend three hours thinking about that, knowing that they're not thinking about it at all, like it's not, they've moved on, they're doing their own thing.
Aaron Pete:And then it's like and then somebody has your back and say like Rebecca makes breakfast for me or something, and like, and I just go, oh, thank you very much, and move on from that, and I'm giving somebody else who's causing problems three hours of my day thinking about how they impacted me and it just seems almost unjust.
Vin Jay:It goes back to what we said before it's easier to be pulled down than it is to lift others up, and I think that's why we fall into those traps so easily.
Vin Jay:But you just got to like, if you have your people right, you have your, you have your lady, you have your family, you have your friends, the ones that are close, and you don't have to deal with shit like that with if you, once you have those people and I'm not saying don't make new friends, but once you have those people and I'm not saying don't make new friends, but once you have those people, it doesn't really matter when negative ass people, regardless of how close or far they are from you, try to be like that, cause you're like I don't need to deal with this, and that's a very important word. You're like I don't need to do this, this. I'm doing this by choice. I'm just going to click the big red button on my phone right now, cause I can. I don't owe you anything, I don't even owe you a goodbye. I'm just gonna hit this button and then it's over.
Aaron Pete:I love that, uh. So this song is the start of you actually having Binks and Massetti on the album and you have two songs with them. Of course, I was again excited to see Binks, because high frequency like that tie into your, to your starting out, and in a previous conversation you talked about how you learned a lot during that process and how that album kind of came together, and I love that piece.
Vin Jay:How did these songs come together, particularly, uh, on your mind oh, let me think on your mind wow, so this one's a little weird. So on your mind that I recorded probably two years ago, if not more, and to a different beat, and I was like we're finishing up the album, like the last quarter of the album, and I'm scrolling through my sessions on my computer and I find that I was like this verse is kind of like something. It's got some real cool energy to it, it's saying some motivational things, but it's real swaggy and slightly condescending in a nice way, and so I was like let's build it out. I hit up Massive Man's producer and was like hey, can you make a beat around this acapella? And he sent that back first try and I was like this is actually perfect. And then again I record a scat hook which is basically just no words, it's all melody. You crank the auto tune to 100 and you just start singing and you're like, oh, these notes are really nice. And then I sent that to Miss Eddie and I was like these notes something like this. But you write the whole hook, right, he sends me back that hook first try. And I was like, dude, you're incredible.
Vin Jay:And then I knew Binks would go well on it, cause, again, where me and Binks overlap. I think me and Binks overlap in a few more places than other artists, cause we're both, like OCD, psychotic people. So our styles, uh, vary very drastically, like we have a wide range of what we both like to do. Um. Drastically Like we have a wide range of what we both like to do. Um. But I know banks can wrap his ass off and I love how melodic he can be within his rapping. I think there's artists like me, for example, who I will rap, and then I have melodic sections, cause I like to go all in on my melodic sections. Binks has this way of intertwining melody Into just his regular rap parts that you may not necessarily even Know were melodic unless you were Paying attention. It's like that's the way it turned. It started falling out.
Aaron Pete:No, I'm thinking of a different record, but either way, there's a part in the song when he speeds up in the cadence of how he's speaking. It flows and I had to chill down my back when he did that, because it was like there's that balance between chaos and order. And when he chose to speed up it was like whoa, that was not what the flow that you were expecting going into it.
Vin Jay:Yeah, so smooth. But when they enter the telescope they want the grace they never gave you first that party. He goes crazy. But yeah, binks is just smooth man. He's a smooth lyricist and I think I said this on the last time we spoke. Everyone's voice is an instrument, just like a guitar or a violin or a flute, and you can tell when a song needs a guitar or when it needs a flute. And I heard that and I knew Binks's voice. His instrument would fit very well sonically and he's talented enough to carry it lyrically.
Aaron Pete:Can you tell me a little bit more about your relationship with Massetti? Have you guys talked a lot? Do you have a strong connection? How did you guys get introduced?
Vin Jay:We met through massive man. Me and massive man are pretty good friends and he's worked with massetti for years. They've made so many songs together, um. So yeah, I think the introduction just happened, I don't know, maybe just just organically. I don't think we were making a song necessarily. I think I heard a record of massettis and loved it. I was like I got to work with this kid. He was familiar with me as well. We got in touch and we made see the light. That was the first song that we ever made together.
Vin Jay:But now I've spoken to him many times. We know each other, call each other on FaceTime and shit. So yeah, we just know we're always trying to work together. We both respect each other's crafts and how we approach our music and so when a song calls for that person, we know you could just FaceTime someone and they'll pick up. That's a toxic habit of mine. I could not talk to you for two years just because, like, business hasn't called for it. If we're not necessarily friends and I will not call you or text you, I'll just facetime you and I'll be like yo, you look at the song I just made and I need you on the hook. And the cool thing about most artists is they'll just pick up the facetime and they're like oh, that's fucking sick, I'll get in the studio that's awesome.
Aaron Pete:Uh, you mentioned massive man. Do you have any reflections on the journey he's on right now?
Vin Jay:It's incredible. I've seen him struggle with his weight and eating addiction for so long since I've known him and when he told me he was going on this journey, I just didn't know how it was going to pan out, because it's a difficult, difficult journey, especially with his food addiction. So I'm like I was stoked for him, but I knew it was going to be a difficult, difficult journey, especially with his food addiction. So I'm like I was stoked for him, but I knew it was going to be a difficult road. Now fast forward, however, many months later, and he's not only down like 200 pounds or something. He is working out now and I love to see that it's not just a shake diet anymore. It's like I'm eating correctly and I'm hitting the gym regularly. And I think documenting the entire process and sharing it with the world before you've even achieved the goal that you told everyone you're going to achieve is so courageous and I have nothing but respect for what he's doing. I'm very happy to see him become healthy and happier as a result.
Aaron Pete:It just goes back to that point of being able to see other people doing their thing and like choosing that path to your point. It's like how many people make new year's resolutions, like everybody, and how many people follow through? Not very many. And to go through that and to share the tough days and the good days is like there's something really like profound about that, because it's so easy to see where people end up. The Jeff Bezos is the Elon Musk and go oh well, they had this moment where life got easier for them or they had that moment. You don't see the moment where, like, elon Musk is sitting on the ground in his um, in his factory, trying to make everything work and it's just not working. You only see the success today and for him, him to share that. I felt like was so brave and really really vulnerable to share that part of your life because it's something you're not proud of. So there's an instinct to want to put it under the carpet and not talk about it.
Vin Jay:I think that's why it's resonating so well, though, especially like on social media, which is a highlight reel, and you're choosing to show exactly the opposite of that, which I think is what's connecting with everybody. I think people are starting to get a little tired of the um, perfected, only shiny content, and it's like hey, look at me, look at me, buy my stuff, buy my stuff. So yeah, I've, it's really um, uh, I respect what he's doing big time, and I think I think social media is um. I had a little like brain blast about social media. Granted, I'm not doing it as I should, because, same reason, I don't put the lyrics on my songs, but but I had this fucking brain blast.
Vin Jay:I was watching tv with my wife the other day and we're watching, like a guy, fieri, what is it? Diners, drive-ins and dives, right. And it hit me. I'm like, oh my God, everyone's doing social media wrong, including me. And she's like what do you mean? I said it's just a TV network. Your, your page is a TV network and you just don't need to go to any big company to do it anymore, but you can quite literally just create that's your channel. If your channel 33 or 52, like your page is just your channel and and your network and if you can create a good enough thing for people to watch, it's just TV without any barriers. It's how you get on TV without knowing anyone that could get you on TV. So it's like if we can all shift our mindset of like, what is my show about and what does the layout of that show look like, oh my God, it would crush. And Massaman's show right now is I'm losing weight. Look at my weight loss journey.
Aaron Pete:That's such a good point because once you kind of zoom out to like what is the main purpose of what I'm posting about, Then people understand why they're clicking and watching and tuning in. But sometimes you don't know because your instinct is like I've got to post something, Got a new song, got to post it and you're trying to find a way to fit your content into your channel rather than letting your channel be and letting everything kind of happen organically.
Vin Jay:Yeah, and we're mimicking what other people are doing. That has worked. So like what are you trying to? You're doing the worst version of their show instead of just making your own show. I think once you could figure out the a unique way to present your craft or whatever it is you're doing in like a show format, you're going to crush even Michael Minnelli right now with his step to the mic thing. That's a TV show, dude, that's a. That's a TV show. People walk up to this table and they, they present their talent. That's a literal TV show. So I think if you can get creative enough and create your own little show to present your craft, it's that's the moneymaker right there.
Aaron Pete:Amazing. The song I Wish with NK. Of course you know I'm excited to see it because you guys have been on like different journeys of different songs, with different styles.
Vin Jay:And I really appreciate the approach you guys have. How did that collab come about? That was just me and him hanging out. We were literally just hanging out in here scrolling through beats, found that one and we had no intention of like, oh, we need to make a song for the sake of business or for the sake of an album. We were, like you, trying to make some music I'm bored, let's make some music. And that came out of it all in the same day. We recorded that whole shit that day and I think that's why the song feels so just organic and like it has a bop to it. It has a real organic bop. There's nothing forced on it because we were just having fun that day and made a song.
Aaron Pete:One of my favorite parts about it is you talked about the importance of finding your purpose, and you may have already mentioned this earlier, but I'm curious what is your purpose?
Vin Jay:my purpose is? I should think before I answer this so quickly. I think at this point in my life, my purpose is to provide for the people around me, be a beacon of light for them and an inspiration and and just hopefully uplift to whatever extent the people that I come across. I think it is providing and being the support system for the ones closest to me, first and foremost, and if I can inspire through any other actions I take, that is a beautiful second thing that I can do.
Aaron Pete:I love that and I love how methodical you were about answering that question and making sure you got it right. But, like instinctively, I kind of knew, because you raise it in so many of your songs and you try and inspire others to think of it that same way. And again, I think it has religious undertones, because there's something that I don't know what happened to us that wanted us to do something other than focus on our family. Like there was this drive for a lot of my life that was like, oh, your job is what matters and this is what matters and getting the pension and doing these things, and not like being grateful to have people in your life that love you reaching your own potential and having them support that and you supporting them in that. There's something just simple and beautiful about that that we almost wanted to make more complicated than it needed to be.
Vin Jay:Don't get me started, bro, don't get me started. I'll go on a 20-minute rant. I think that there was a lot to gain by breaking up the nuclear family, so to speak, from a monetary standpoint, on a large scale. I'll put it quite vaguely, but I think there was a lot to gain by certain people by breaking up the nuclear family for money purposes.
Aaron Pete:Wow, I think I've heard that that like one of the big challenges. We just rewatched a few episodes of I don't know if you've heard of it Little House on the Prairie, my mom told me about that, but I've never seen it.
Aaron Pete:Okay. So it's like a 1970s or 80s show and it's based in the 1870s, so it's like 100 years previous to what it was in the 1970s. And just the priorities one man working, providing for the family, making sure everybody's taken care of um and the family, admiring and appreciating that and and valuing the work that he does and and supporting him by making sure his food's ready and going out into the world trying to do everything he can to provide for his family. Then coming home like there's.
Aaron Pete:I understand that there's like a lot of complexity to history and that it's just a tv show, but there is something about like now you have to have two incomes in order to provide for your family. You have to put your kids into a daycare where you're not watching over them, you have no relationship with your kids because you're working and they're in daycare or they're in school, and then there's just this huge disconnect that takes place and you don't have any connection with, potentially, your spouse or your children and you're just going out getting after it. They're getting after it and then they want to leave the house as fast as they can. Like there's just something so empty about that deal, that idea of where we should be going.
Vin Jay:Yeah, and if you know the children are in a rush to go out and live on their own. And whatever your values are, anybody listening is more power to you. But strictly from the perspective of could there have been benefit to breaking up the nuclear family, I'll speak from that. But do you to each his own.
Vin Jay:I don't knock anybody for what they desire and what they want out of this life, but if, instead of, let's say, the husband being able to go to work and make enough money to support everybody, the wife now needs to go out and work just for the sake of staying afloat, even if they don't want to, and then the kids are in a rush to get out and get their own house, well now you have, you know, three people being taxed on their income as opposed to one, and the kid is not in one house with the family anymore. They just bought their own. So now two people are paying property taxes. I think it's extremely financially incentivized to separate the family and there's also power in the nuclear family that if you have ill intentions, it's also smart to separate the nuclear family.
Aaron Pete:Brilliant. The song Savior is one of my favorites, but I'm always biased for songs Like. One of my favorite songs has always been Me myself and I, with bb rexa and uh g easy, because I like the, the flow back and forth, um, and I found this track to be beautiful and like haunting. Where did that come from?
Aaron Pete:my presence, finding my direction each time that I step into my faith and say grace for the life that I question.
Vin Jay:Question, I'll be waiting on tomorrow for the rest of my life. So, savior again, I'm realizing now how many, how recurring of a theme this is for the album. I wrote that verse to a completely different beat, completely completely different beat, and we made this beat because I wanted it to feel a bit more ethereal and and spiritual. So once we got this beat, I recorded this verse on it and, um, I sat down and I was like this feels really spiritual and tapped into god and and the desire to keep pushing forward, but more in a faith based sense as opposed to like F everybody. And so when I wrote this hook and that's Cassidy, that's my wife singing the hook, which I love. I think that just makes the song even more beautiful.
Aaron Pete:There's also something beautiful about the fact that it's you two, like what that was going to be. One of my questions was to confirm, because you didn't have some person listed as as the feature. So I was like I feel like that that's Cassidy, but I can't confirm. So I wanted to ask. But I love that because it's you two together, right like it's it's your guys's story, it's your album, it's you two working together yin and yang honest, like it's's just. It's poetic in that sense as well.
Vin Jay:Yeah, I would do every song with her if I could. It's just unfortunately not every song calls for it. But yeah, the hook is, and I'll be waiting on tomorrow for the rest of my life and I know it's never coming, but I'll be all right. I've been up, I've been down, I've been up, I've been down, I've been whatever the hell the words are, but I'm still waiting around for a savior. Right, should be proud of myself, but I'm still waiting around for a savior. And that is like I love the internal struggle of the hook because it's like it's. It's persevering because you have faith, but you're still gonna have these moments of just because you have faith in god. And the fact that things are going to get better doesn't mean these dark moments don't come, and I think that we presented that really nicely. There's this beautiful faithful nature to the song, but also this like doubt underlying in it too. It's so dark and beautiful the song, and I think that's my favorite part about it it's so encompassing of life.
Aaron Pete:The other piece that you said right after that was and maybe I don't want to be saved. And you can see that internal struggle and people can think like, well, of course you want to be saved, like that's. That's just the logic.
Vin Jay:But you see in the actions you take sometimes that those aren't aligned with where you want to end up I'm so glad you said that and picked up on it, because I didn't want that maybe I don't want to be saved to be taken literally. Obviously, everyone wants to be saved and, and you know, be accepted by God and all that. Like you said, the maybe I don't want to be saved is like, well, if you look at what I'm doing, like it doesn't really seem like I'm saying uh or that. Um, I mean what I'm saying in terms of, like, being faithful and loving God. Maybe, judging by these actions, that's not the case.
Aaron Pete:The other piece that it ties into and this is why I love your music is because there's so many like I view like life is like hyperlinks, like if you click on that you get here and like, so I listened to I don't know if you follow the diary of a ceo or steven bartlett, uh, I highly recommend it. He's uh, he sets the example for me on where I want to go as a podcast host. He, I think he's one of the best right now. He's based in the uk, but he interviewed eric weinstein, um, and they did like a three-hour interview. And one of the points uh, steven bartlett makes is like, well, like I'm not opposed to the idea of a God, but you know, like I'm not, I don't believe 100%. And Eric responds with like get over yourself.
Aaron Pete:You think every person who's in a church is 100% bought and sold, that there's a God and that this all makes sense. They struggle every single day. They struggle together in those buildings. Like when you go to church, you're not a hundred percent knowing everything is beyond a shadow of a doubt, a fact. You're going in hoping and having faith that there is something and you're going to struggle with that.
Aaron Pete:And he, he just put it in a way where he's like we get so in our heads about how we think, about what is god? Is it a guy in the sky? Is it like the fundamentals of DNA? Is consciousness everywhere? We get stuck in these spots and those are good spots to kind of ponder. But do you believe this was all done with some sort of thought, some sort of idea behind it?
Aaron Pete:And, like to me, I can't deny that there is, like when you look at how our world has evolved, how animals evolved, how we evolved, like you cannot say that it's all random and accidental and not on purpose, like it all looks like there's some sort of reason here and that's what you're going in when you're having faith or when you're believing. That's what it means to me to be religious. It doesn't mean that you're agreeing that being a Presbyterian is better than being a Catholic, is better than being whatever else there is. You're just agreeing, hey, I better than being whatever else there is. You're just agreeing, hey. I think that there's something else going on here that I don't fully understand and we sometimes overcomplicate that 100% agree.
Vin Jay:Have you seen the video where it's?
Vin Jay:a metaphor and it's two twins in the womb talking about mother. Have you seen that video? No, do you mind if I pull that up and quote it really fast? Sure, do it. It ties in very well to what we're talking about. This is the chat GPT edition, so bear with me. Sounds good, because otherwise I would have to put the video up to the mic and it would be a nightmare. Yeah, but in a mother's womb were two babies.
Vin Jay:One asked the other do you believe in life after delivery? The other replied why? Of course there has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what will be later. Nonsense, said the first. There is no life after delivery. What kind of life would that be?
Vin Jay:The second said I don't know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths. Maybe we will have other senses that we can't understand now. The first replied that is absurd. Walking is impossible and eating with our mouths ridiculous. The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need, but the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded.
Vin Jay:The second insisted well, I think there is something, and maybe it's different than it is here. Maybe we won't need this physical court anymore. The first replied nonsense. And moreover, if there is life, then why has no one ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life and in the after delivery there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere. Well, I don't know, said the second, but certainly we will meet mother and she will take care of us. The first replied mother, you actually believe in mother? That's laughable. If mother exists, where is she now? The second said she is all around us, we are surrounded by her, we are of her. It is in her that we live. Without her, this world would not and could not exist, said the first. Well, I don't see. That's beautiful.
Aaron Pete:I really like that. Do you feel like this has been a more recent journey or do you feel like you've always been connected to faith?
Vin Jay:I grew up Catholic. I was baptized, confirmed communion, all that, and then, as life went on, I had pitfalls and strayed from my faith, but I would say in the last year or so I've definitely gotten closer to God, because it's just all that matters, dude. I think everything stems from that.
Aaron Pete:I'm seeing this more and more and I don't know if you're seeing it. I've seen Wes Huffley go on with Andrew Schultz and talk about his understanding of the biblical texts, like what they actually mean, what they're dated to, how that works. Joe Rogan my understanding is he's starting to go to church now, like we're seeing. Obviously that's two examples, but we're starting to see there was really like a decline in people's faith, I would say from probably 2010 to 2020, like was a steep decline, and now we're seeing an uptick of people who aren't like being really strict about it. The way I think people think of religion but are being more open minded to it, and Gremlin talks about needing God and having faith. Do you feel like there's an uptick that you're seeing as well?
Vin Jay:Yes, and I don't think it's any coincidence that it's happening. I think the downturn in faith that happened over the past decade or so, when compared to like call it like, I don't know the sixties or like decades and decades ago, when things were a bit more traditional, let's say, I think that loss in faith causes people to take certain actions that are maybe not best for themselves or society and then, to put it bluntly, there's like a rise in evil and nefarious acts because of that, which, in turn, causes people to turn back to God nefarious acts because of that, which in turn causes people to turn back to God.
Aaron Pete:That's a really good point, because you just see so many issues that, like we're trying to pretend could be solved by government and, like I see, within Canada we have a lot of nonprofits that are funded by government and what I just see is like people being paid to do jobs that would have traditionally been done by a church group wanting to give back to the community, and we kind of said we don't need those people anymore, we'll just pay other people to do the same work, and then there's not that heart and soul that goes into the work the same way.
Vin Jay:Yeah, I think it ties back into that. Like we try to intellectualize everything and I think there's a huge portion of this life and probably like the majority of this life is very energetic and spiritual and the fact that we write that off we're doing a huge disservice to ourselves.
Aaron Pete:Agreed the song Break the Cycle to me. I took it as breaking family cycles, and when I just I'll just give you a bit of background. My, so we have what's called indian residential schools in canada that historically ran. They it was a racist policy where they take indian children and put them into schools, uh, which different religious beliefs, like catholicism and pesceterian, took in those kids. They were abused. We have like lots of records on the abuse that had taken place there. They were viewed as like subhuman in a lot of those operations and so my grandmother was like abused in those and she struggled with alcoholism her entire life as a consequence of going through that experience. And then so, through that, she had my mother and she was born with fetal alcohol syndrome disorder because her mother drank alcohol her whole life, and so my mom was born with a disability.
Aaron Pete:She raised me as a single mother and then I'm born, and the piece that I find fascinating is like my community has struggled with this, like my First Nation community has struggled with this because all of their family members went to Indian residential school. And so you have all these people who are reliving this alcoholism cycle. And I was just elected chief, like a month ago to my community, and so I'm trying to help them move away from all of this. But it's so meaningful to me that, like one person can make that difference, that me being in this role, I can change this cycle, hopefully, uh, with their support and their commitment and their desire to do so, move a whole community in a different direction. And so I love the song break the cycle, because that chorus just hits on like I'm walking on a tightrope, the one that I need, and all I want to do is be free someone show me how to break this cycle before, Before it breaks me.
Aaron Pete:Someone get me up off this tightrope. I can't find my balance. I think I might fall at the riddle. I only wanted to be free. Someone show me how to break this cycle.
Aaron Pete:It's not easy. People are like, oh, you're going to be a terrible chief, you're the youngest chief, you don't know enough, you're not going to do a good job. I'm trying to make sure everybody's happy with what I'm doing, while also knowing we have to change so much of what we've done previously that it's going to be difficult to get everybody on the train with me. And so just can you reflect on that song and, I think, the impact that it's going to have.
Vin Jay:Yeah, so dual meaning for break the cycle. For me it is personal, internal cycles as well, but definitely what you said. Also, I think our parents are raised a certain way, like you said, and then they raise us to the best of their ability and their peak. That they have reached in their young adult years becomes our ground level and then we raise from there, right, um, but that doesn't mean that everyone can't be stuck in this cyclic behavior because of conditioning and circumstances and how we were raised.
Vin Jay:And I think when you get the ability to separate yourself from that and break your cycles, you can in turn, help others break theirs. And and it's not I was going to say, it's our duty to do so but it's bigger than that and more simple than that. It's. It's just what you should do.
Vin Jay:When you break that cycle and see others around you still suffering, it's not like, wow, this means I have a responsibility and I need to do this. No, you're just going to want to. If you're a good person, because if you have found the next step or a door that opens and it's lighter in that room and the air is fresher and there's more abundance in there, of course you're going to turn around to the people you care about and be like, hey, come this way, this room is much better, so it's bigger than a duty. It's just right and innately what you're going to want. So I think, as we break these chains that we've had on ourselves, as life goes on because we keep putting ourselves to the fire, right to success and accolades and all that's cool, but that's just a fucking byproduct we put ourselves to this fire and break these chains so that we can do the same for others, and that's more or less the concept of the song.
Aaron Pete:Do you feel like and this is just a general question, not specific to any one family do you feel like there has been a bit of a move away from that position that you mentioned earlier where, like, your parents get to a certain point and then you're supposed to go exceed them?
Aaron Pete:It feels like to me a lot of immigrant families have that expectation of their kids. Like you come to this country, they work as plumbers and in trades and they want their kids to go to university and go become the banker or the doctor or the geneticist or whatever the job is. But it seems like people who are from here, sometimes like the parents, don't want their kids to do better than them, want their kids to do reasonable. And I just look at, as we've discussed, like how our system operates right now, like a lot of the people who are 40, 50, 60, they have the big house, but the people who are 15, 25, 35, that's an uphill battle and it seems like a piece of that is that they are okay doing better than the next generation and that that's something different than we've seen previously.
Vin Jay:Interesting. I'm going to answer this in a few parts. Um, when I say, do better, or or raise yourself from their peak, which is now your ground floor, right? Um, I think in the realist sense, I'm speaking in terms of, like, personal development, right, because my buddy came to me a few weeks ago and he's upset because his mom's going through some shit and he's like it just sucks that, like I have to parent my parent. It just hurts, like you look at them like this superhero. Now I have to parent my parent and I'm like dude, that's how it's supposed to go, unfortunately, cause if you are not able to teach them anything or feel like you have superior understanding than them in certain realms, then what did you do with the ground floor that they gave you? You did nothing.
Vin Jay:So it's a tough pill to swallow that you need to parent your parents, but that's exactly what you're supposed to be doing, because everything they ever learned was instilled into you at a young age. Now, what did you do with that? So, when I say become better, that's what I mean. It's for the sake of bettering them, because they gave you everything. They know the good, the bad and the ugly.
Vin Jay:Now, in terms of like them being okay with us not doing better than them. I don't know, that's probably a person to person thing. I do agree, though, that it is very common in immigrants for to be like I'm going to, like, lay down my life, I'm going to work very hard to make sure that you have that you're better off than I was. I think maybe the reason that's not the case in first world countries when you're born into it, is because you're born into complete comfort. So there's, you don't feel like the same fire to move. There's your back's, not against a wall at all, you kind of can just door dash and Instacart everything to your house and you know everything you need is in your little box.
Aaron Pete:I love that you have one quote here If I want a better life, then it's time I grow, and I'm wondering if. Did you ever have to go through a period where you went from a victim mentality to a growth mindset?
Vin Jay:Oh yeah, oh yeah. That's what changed my whole life. I think that's what separates the winners from the losers. Honestly, as this happened to me, and that's why I am the way I am, and that accepting of defeat is just, it's not. I could not do that. You know you need again. That's what this life is. Face those defeats, overcome those hurdles. That's what it's about and you need if you want to be successful or even go towards your purpose.
Vin Jay:There's going to be roadblocks. To to accept defeat first from something that is inevitable is is crazy to me. That's like going on a roller coaster and saying like if this thing elevates at all from ground level, I'm going to be pissed and I'm giving up. It's like that's the entire point of the fucking roller coaster. So to to admit defeat immediately from a roadblock which is guaranteed when you're trying to grow, it's just backwards thinking. You need to re shape the mindset you have around roadblocks and understand that it's just, it is a part of it, it's a part of life, it's a part of success and growing it's weird that we can do that with video games.
Aaron Pete:To your earlier point, yeah, we cannot see it so clearly when it's our own life. Like you, you battle a little boss and then you battle another little boss and like you don't go. Oh well, like why do I have to battle any bosses? Like why can't I just walk through this whole scene. It's like the whole point is you face the little one and like I think even good shows, like I love suits there's always like little issues that they deal with every episode, but then there's a big boss of the season that they're up against, and so it's like you're constantly fighting something, whether it's something something small or something bigger. And there's like we love that, we intrinsically love that we don't want to watch a show without an antagonist or play a video game without challenges and so like, but then we divorce that when it's like real life.
Vin Jay:Yeah, I think we as humans naturally stray away from discomfort, but we're doing ourselves such a disservice. And this, this quote, is about criticism, but I think it rhymes well with what we're speaking about. It's like if you want to avoid criticism, you can just do nothing and be nothing. The problem with that is you won't be able to escape your own criticism at that point. So I think if you try to avoid these roadblocks that are inevitable on the road to success, you're going to get hit with the, the cost and negative outcomes of of not even trying, which are going to be worse than those roadblocks, because at least the roadblocks are temporary.
Aaron Pete:Exactly the song nostalgic. The part that I really liked about it was I wake and defy limits and that tie-in for me was just like you hear about people who go to the gym and they don't push themselves that day. And there's that complacency even though you went, you did the right thing. There's this instinct to not see exactly what your limits are. And for you, I'm just wondering how do you keep pushing yourself and continuing to grow when you do that every single day?
Vin Jay:It's the. It's loving the journey, not necessarily even loving it. It's understanding that the journey is the entire thing. There is no destination. It doesn't matter what I've gotten so far although I'm grateful for it I never did it for the outcome. I'm doing it because each day I show up and even if we're just talking about making songs, it doesn't matter how much success I've had off songs, cause that's not why I do it. It's that if I can show up three weeks in a row and the first 20 days were just not it and I'm hitting brick wall after brick wall, it's that day. It does work. That's like that is what it's about, and that breaking through on day 21 would have meant nothing without the other 20 sucking. There's no yin and yang.
Vin Jay:What makes it good is that there was so much bad before it. If you have nothing to compare it to, what is it? It's nothing. Everything's relative.
Vin Jay:So the drive comes from like. It's not accolade driven. If it was accolade driven, I would have been complacent a long time ago, because I'm comfortable, thank God. But okay, I went through a period where I was like oh, my life is good, I don't have to do anything, I don't need to do anything. I can coast if I want to. That sucks so bad. You think you want to do nothing until you do nothing and then you realize how bad it sucks. So I realized it's.
Vin Jay:I'm not doing this for what I would gain from a big song. I just like the songs become big because they're great. You know the ones that don't, maybe they're not as great, but the ones that get big. Like if you told me to make my song goat or a song equally as good tomorrow, I probably couldn't. It's not up to me, but because I keep showing up, those things just end up happening and that's what it's all about. I just keep going to the lake and keep fishing and and I keep catching big fish because I'm there so often but I catch a bunch of small fish and no fish days, and it's just part of it. I just like going to the lake because that's fucking life. This finish line thing is so stupid, it's so dumb.
Aaron Pete:I like that because I've heard this idea of the muse and that you're supposed to go and meet the muse where it is. You're supposed to go, show up there, sit down, wait for it to appear, and you're waiting for it Like it won't come every day. That's not a guarantee, but you're going there hoping that it does and ready to accept whatever comes, because we don't know where ideas and creativity comes from. We can't say, oh, this, the reason you made that song is because something happened to you yesterday that caused that song to be created. Sometimes that might happen, but there's lots of songs, I'm sure that just almost flow through you.
Vin Jay:Yeah, it's all we can do is show up because, like you said, it's not up to us. When that for lack of a better term when inspiration strikes, it is not up to you and maybe maybe sometimes you can muscle through it. But, like it's, the great songs are never muscling through it. It's. You have went into this room so often that eventually you met someone else while you were in there. But it's, the only way it's going to happen is if you keep showing up exactly where did the name of the song nostalgic come from?
Vin Jay:how did that one come out? So I was, was at Banks's. We're making the album. He cooks up the beat.
Vin Jay:I read my whole verse that day. I figured out the melody for the hook and as I'm just mumbling words, the word nostalgia came out. But I was like the verse isn't necessarily about nostalgia. So how do we make this make sense? I don't just want a catchy hook and a verse that has nothing to do with it. So we put a fun spin on the term nostalgic and a bit arrogant spin on it, because again, the verse is just real, a little cocky and fun. So I was like we can't get deep on the hook. It makes no sense. So it says I've been so nostalgic All I do is win, and every time I wake up I know I'm going to do it again and I've been so nostalgic I'm losing my friends, right.
Vin Jay:And it's like well, what do you mean? I'm so nostalgic I'm losing my friends, or I'm so nostalgic when I wake up I win. It's saying that like I'm becoming so used to success and like breaking through these barriers that when I do it I get nostalgic and I'm losing my friends because the amount of energy that requires over here is causing that. So it's a fun little twist on the word of like a cocky way of saying I win so much that when I do it I get nostalgic.
Aaron Pete:Okay, for the song Journey. Did you know how hard this one was going to hit Like? Did you have any sense prior?
Vin Jay:No, when people have told me their favorite songs off this album, aside from the singles, it's been blowing my mind because these songs, you know, I've heard them all a thousand and a half times, so all the magic is gone for me. But when people are like yo on your mind, I wish and Journey, I'm like what I'm so thrown off, especially Journey. Granted, I'm my biggest critic. I think Cryptic destroyed it. I think Lansdowne, who's on the hook, destroyed it. And then my verse. I'm like my verse is okay. I'm not like a huge fan of my verse, Wow, yeah. And so when people are like I love it, I'm like that's cool, that you love it, I guess.
Aaron Pete:One of my favorite parts of it is I don't need rest and recovery.
Aaron Pete:I have a blessing in front of me and I love that because you're so good at phrasing those things and it just feels like we've been stuck in this work-life balance culture, this burnout culture, for so long and there isn't that like you're alive, like you have the opportunity in front of you to like go do exactly what you want to do, and even if you're not there today, you get the privilege of building your empire, whatever that looks like, whatever lane you want to go down, it's your life, it's your opportunity to reach your full potential. And it's just like we just don't say that and people forget.
Vin Jay:Yeah, I love when people are like, oh, you should take a break, you should take a rest. Take a break from what exactly? From the thing that I chose to do every day because it gives me purpose. Is that what I should take a break from, and what do you suggest I replace it with? I don't need a break from doing something that makes me feel purposeful for having a goal that doesn't have a finish line. I don't need a break from partaking in the thing that brings me and other people joy and feeds my family. I don't need a break from that. So I think, yeah, I don't need rest and recovery. I have a blessing in front of me. It's so bizarre. You need a break. I think you need a break from what you're doing. If you feel like people need to take breaks, you find something that you don't feel like you need to take a break from and do that shit as often as possible.
Aaron Pete:Exactly, and the name of the song is perfect, because it's not called Destination or Final Destination or or you've arrived. It's called journey. Because the greatest gift is that, like you come out with like the human experience and like I'm just wondering, what is it like to be able to look at these chapters of your life? Like so many people, they couldn't tell you the difference between when they were 20 and when they were 30. But you're getting like real documentation of where your mind was during different chapters of your life.
Vin Jay:It's one of my favorite parts personally about the music is to look back and see these checkpoints and timestamps of who I was that a picture could never do justice to, because it's quite literally like my stream of consciousness at that point in time. And one of my favorite quotes is art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time, and I think listening to these albums is is a real good example of that.
Aaron Pete:I'm going to need a few minutes with that one, because that was really profound as well, with cryptic wisdom and lands down. How did, how did you bring those they're they're very different styles. How did you bring that all together and make it coalesce together?
Vin Jay:I think I had three other people sing that hook for me and none of them panned out Like I wrote the hook and I shipped it out to a bunch of people and I think being able to articulate yourself as a superpower because when you know what you want and you can convey it to it to feel like it's coming from someone's soul, like they mean it with everything in their being and I had talented singers sing it but when I heard them sing it to me I didn't necessarily believe it. I wasn't infected by what they were saying. Like when you play a motivational video and you get chills because it just resonates so hard, that's what I need. And Lansdowne crushed it. When they sent that to me I was like, thank you, that's exactly what I needed. Energy wise.
Vin Jay:Same with Cryptic. Obviously he's extremely lyrically talented, but the journey no pun intended of energy. Throughout his verse it starts and you could hear almost a little bit of like pain and reflection in his voice and then, as it goes stronger, he's climbing out of the depths of hell energetically. He's getting louder and more bass in his tone and that is what I need out of the song. I need to be taken on a journey without me listening. I need to be taken on a journey from the vibrations alone that changed the way I'm feeling as the song goes on, and they both destroyed it in that room.
Aaron Pete:Is there something surreal about having an idea in your head and then watching people bring it to life in a way that you you couldn't have, like you, you almost can't, can't say what you're looking for, that they, they understand the assignment almost like in their soul?
Vin Jay:yeah, it's. It's a two-piece thing right your ability to articulate what you're looking for energetically and their receptiveness. So it is like when it does happen it's really special, because just because you can explain yourself well doesn't mean the other person's going to exactly understand or be able to execute, even if they do understand. So it's like a three-part thing that needs to all go correctly to get shit like that.
Aaron Pete:Where did the song Adolescent Reject come from? For you?
Vin Jay:For you to ask that about that song specifically. You couldn't have asked it for a better song?
Aaron Pete:I don't lose my way when the passion pass. I walk on shattered glass just to get my family cash A human first, father second and a rapper last. You'll never know where to find me.
Vin Jay:Going through these growing pains. So I was going to Binks' house like three days a week, maybe even more to work on this album at a point, and he lives an hour and a half away from me. I'm driving to Binks' house like three days a week, maybe even more, to work on this album at a point, and he lives an hour and a half away from me. I'm driving to his house one day and I realized 10 minutes into the ride, when I go to play my Apple Music, that for some reason I don't have access to any music on my phone. I think my internet was down or something of that nature, so the only music I was able to listen to was basically files on my phone. Whatever has been downloaded on my computer from you know stems. So I had like the acapella unmixed from, like my song what If from 2020. Obviously, I'm not listening to that in the car. That's crazy. So it's just random files of nonsense and as I'm scrolling through trying to find some actual music in these files, that beat comes on. It's from a producer. I have no idea who they were, never heard the name. It was produced by two people. It was like Dylan, dylan Cush and, and, oh my God, I forget the second guy's name, but either way, both super talented producers and I'm like what is this?
Vin Jay:And I look and I'm like producers often send me beat packs because my email is like public on my YouTube. So if you want to send me beats or business inquiries, you can and they must have sent me a beat pack years ago and I just download it to my computer, give it a quick look and if nothing resonates immediately, I'm like okay, onto the next. Nothing came from this. But this random beat pops up on my way to Binks's to work on something, a different song, and I'm like this is actually a really fire, like introspective energy. So I start writing to it on my drive. I pull up to Binks's house. He's like are you ready to work? And I'm like give me 20 more minutes in. In my car I just found this beat on the way here and I found something here. So I finished my verse and we didn't do what we planned to do for that day. Instead, I recorded over that beat.
Aaron Pete:That never would have happened if my internet was working wow, yeah, and so how did it come about with Oswin Benjamin?
Vin Jay:So, once I understood the topic, or listened back to my verse and understood where I was going with it and the intention of the song, it is, I think, the most melancholy, introspective record on the album. It's not about a hit, it's just about hey, this is my thoughts right now, in this moment in time, and I want to speak on these few things right now. Um and then, uh, we got, uh, I think cole, this, this girl named cole sung the hook and she's incredibly talented. And, um, I'm sorry I'm tangent, tangent thing, but I don't even know why I started the verse like that. But it set the tone for everything, like welcome to the journey of an adolescent, reject right, and then who turned into a man that's full of class, in need of recess.
Vin Jay:And I think those first two lines just encapsulate where I am right now, better than anything, better than the rest of the album as a whole. And it's because I'm from a little badass 17 year old kid who's just doing everything bad and wrong, to a father and a husband who is maintaining a business for the sake of supporting his family, with a long-term goal in mind that we can, you know, do whatever with this business in the long run and then go live our lives specifically for that, and we could put the business aside because it's taken care of at that point. To go from person A to person B in that scenario is exactly how I feel right now. I feel the shift from a boy to a man heavier now than I have at any other point in my life. It feels like the transition is like more complete than it's ever been, as opposed to being in that middle ground of like young adult.
Vin Jay:And Oswin Benjamin is just one of the most talented rappers I've ever heard and he's also extremely introspective, intelligent. And he is one of the most talented rappers I've ever heard and he's also extremely introspective, intelligent and he is one of those people that when you send him a song, understands the assignment, he's really in tune with himself and and everything going on. So when I sent it to him, I was like this energy is good, it's laid back and I know he's going to say some things that are really like profound on his verse. And he, he delivered.
Aaron Pete:I couldn't agree more. What would you name this chapter of your life?
Vin Jay:Oh, wow, wow, wow, wow. The third act, because I feel like I went from a kid to a young adult who was driven, but probably still for selfish reasons, and now a man who still has drive, but not at the cost of other things, and the drive and business is not number one anymore.
Aaron Pete:I love that. The song who's Next, you say, went from a hobby to a passion and a business appeared. Is there a moment where you could feel that that change?
Aaron Pete:take place from it being a passion to a business.
Vin Jay:Yeah, yeah, the hobby, hobby to a passion. Then a business appeared, yeah. So once the mumble rapper thing happened, obviously everything took off for me. But I was just on go mode. It was just like we need to ride this momentum and wave for everything it's worth.
Vin Jay:But once I got out of the scarcity mindset of like, okay, we may not be viral tomorrow, we need to make sure we just keep putting songs out and put songs out, and I kind of settled into the fact that I have established and built something that is solid and it is now time to maintain it and grow it and keep the reputation alive and think a bit more long-term, because this is no longer about a quick relevance grab.
Vin Jay:This is about really maintaining, solidifying and growing something that is big. It's big and it's everything it feeds my family. It's that moment when I was like, okay, not take your foot off the gas, but stop running in scarcity mode. If you could slow down a bit, greatness does not rush. Slow down a bit and you can continue to put great things on top of this already great thing that you have built. But if you continue with this, just give, give, give, give, give. You're doing yourself in the business, a disservice as the fans, because you're not trying to give them great stuff, you're trying to give them a lot of stuff.
Aaron Pete:Is it scary at all? Is it more scary when you're grinding and you're like nobody's discovered me yet because I haven't had my big hit, like nothing's dropped yet. That blows people away. Then that moment happens. Is that period of time more terrifying? Because it's like it's in your hand and if you don't utilize it in that moment you'll like you could disappear into like there's lots of people who've done great work and had great albums, and then they kind of disappear and kind of fade away. Is that moment particularly scary, or is there more pressure in that moment when you have the opportunity to kind of take full advantage?
Vin Jay:Oh, yeah, the pressure. That's the biggest difference of oh, when I get what I want, I'm going to be happy. No, when you get what you want, you're going to feel pressure because now you're trying to hold onto it for dear life. So yeah, it's a complete shift. Everyone thinks when they get there, like then I'll be good. No, you're gonna. You're gonna be more nervous when you get it. But you kind of have to root yourself in the belief that you are good enough to replicate what you've done multiple times and you don't have to be scared If you just take a deep breath, center yourself and know you're capable of executing successful things over and over and over again if you show up enough.
Aaron Pete:Humbly. I think your greatest line of all time that truly represents you was in this song and it's when you say you hear abundance in my voice. This isn't the product of distress. I think that encapsulates like who you are as an artist. I think that encapsulates like who you are as an artist and to your point about cryptic wisdom and Lansdowne and how they showed up with the soul in their voice.
Aaron Pete:When you drop that line, there's something like deeper in it when you say it that just like hit me really hard. Of like that's exactly it. Like some people they take what they've been through and the challenges and adversity they face and they lean on that. But there's something about your style that has abundance in it where other people are not in a bad way but they're kind of just focused on the bad that has happened and you have like this, like no, but you can go get it. Like you can start from nothing and you can go get it. That I just I feel like that line just encapsulates did that hit you the same way? Of like that's who I am?
Vin Jay:yeah now I said that um, adolescent reject. Those first two lines encapsulate the whole album, um, better than anything else. Personally, I don't think who's next is the best song, because there's a lot that goes into a song, like sonics and and hit factors and things like that, but in terms of the introspective nature of who's next, that is probably my favorite song. Uh, on the album with that, uh, from that perspective rather, and yes for the, uh, you hear abundance when I rap this ain't the product of distress, it's. I think that's why, like dude, the, the music is just a, an extension of us. So you can fake the funk for one or two songs if you want, but like there's no longevity in that you can only fake for so long. So when I'm talking like that, that is genuinely how I feel, and and I wouldn't be able to say things like that with such conviction if I didn't take the time out to take inventory of what's going well in my life. Like I said, there was.
Aaron Pete:There was also a lesson I took away from it and I like I think it's so valuable. One of the pieces you talked about is like I have to go earn my spot again, like I'm going to get up here, I'm going to earn my spot again. And I just remember and I'm sure Tim remembers how nervous I was to interview you for the first time, like how sweaty my hands were, how like I was, like man, like I listen to his songs all the time I'm gonna be speaking to him, he's giving me an opportunity here and just being able to go through that feeling again, prepping for this interview and wanting to earn your time again, wanting you to feel like like, oh, like I'm gonna give this guy some time. Is it gonna be worth it? Is he gonna ask the right questions? Like you would.
Aaron Pete:I still remember you telling me like I did one guy's podcast and it was like I gave him a shot and he completely like fumbled the ball and did not utilize the opportunity, and like you never want to be in that you want to go earn it again. And there was just something refreshing about those points of like yeah, you can start to grow, you can start to have success on your channel or start to have success with getting bigger interviews, but like owning it and earning it and feeling like you're you, don't, you belong there, cause that imposter syndrome. I'm really against that idea, cause if you earn it, if you've got that blood, sweat and tears that's gone into it, you don't feel like anything's being handed to you unjustly. You feel like you should be there because you've earned it and I just I love that energy in that song.
Vin Jay:Yeah, I think every day, we show up to do our job, whether it's you with the podcast or me with making songs. Each song, each podcast granted a bit different of realms, but every individual one should be able to stand on its own. I shouldn't be able to say, because I made goat or mumble rapper, now I can make a bunch of shit songs, like every song it it. If it's someone's first time hearing me, it should fucking resonate, because we it can get clouded by business, this whole thing, podcast music, there's money to be made, so on and so forth, right, but we should just be trying to make and create great things for the sake of making things that are great and that we are able to share with the world because they're great. To do it at, again, a place of scarcity or just for money, it's like why are you even bringing that into the world? Why do you even feel the need to create that into existence? So every day, we should have to earn our spot.
Vin Jay:I've seen certain times where my numbers have slipped because I haven't dropped a good song in five months, right, and it's like okay, what did you think, though? Because you dropped X amount of good songs, you could coast for the rest of your life. No, you have to continually prove yourself. No one owes you anything for what you've done. What are you doing right now? Are you continuing to make incredible things and say, hey world, look at this thing I made? I think it's worth your attention. If you're not doing that, then you are not owed anybody's attention.
Aaron Pete:I don't care what you've doneiantly said, the beast unleashed six. Uh, I have a question for you about that genre. So I know, like echo has like his freestyle, where I think he has six of them now. Uh, nf has his intro series, intro one, two and three. How how does that come about? How do you, like you started beast unleashed one? How does that become its own kind of realm, because those are also almost like mini chapters of your life, of like your growth in style. How does that come about?
Vin Jay:So I'm going to be very honest with you right now. So Beast Unleashed 1, after Mumble Rapper happened, had become my biggest song Like it was streaming better than anything and it still is my biggest song. So the producer I was working with at the time he's like we should make a second one because it's just a smart move. You have a lot of like virality right now and clearly it has a name to it. So if you drop a second one it could cause some pull, he's like, but you need to show up on the record and I was like, true, I like that idea.
Vin Jay:So maybe initially it was just a business move, but after that that it has transformed into man. How would I even word? This is like how lyrical and creative can we be and push the boundaries of what should happen in a rap song? I like I need the beat to sound like no other thing that is popular right now or that I've done. I need to create a new planet that we can live on on this song and I need to make sure that what I do on it is something that's so incredible that I could just put a box in a town square, stand on it and do that thing and it would cause a crowd. So I need to create this new place. Beast Unleashed has developed such a name to it now for me that you are never going to catch me just putting out a Beast Unleashed. For the fuck of it, if I'm putting out a Beast Unleashed, it is going to have some mind blowing elements to it, because that's the entire point of it now.
Aaron Pete:I couldn't agree more and I'm wondering if you can reflect on exactly what you just described creating fuel for people.
Aaron Pete:Because, to your point, like I can go tell someone like, hey, you got to go get after it, this is what you do, this is how you do, this is how you do it.
Aaron Pete:But music really is that place where you can go to every single day to get that same dose of, like, mindset, passion, drive, and you can access that at any time. You don't have to sit down with a friend who's gonna be like, no, you got this, you just got to go get after it. It's. It's a place you can go as much as you need to to stay on the path and, like I think about why I am where I am today, and it's in part because I can listen to voices that inspire me when I'm on my way to my interview, or when I'm on my way to work, or when I'm on my way to go record a podcast. Like I can get the inspiration I need and then walk in and kill it. What does it mean to you to be able to provide that? And Beast Unleashed is such a space specifically for that goal.
Vin Jay:I think it's a beautiful byproduct that I'm able to inspire others, but I'm just trying to do the best I can. If I had to put it simply, I'm so happy to inspire anybody, from one person to a million people. Awesome, that is an incredible byproduct. I am just showing up because it is the best thing that I have found to do with my time is try my best. That is the best way I've found to spend my time.
Aaron Pete:You mentioned that you've gotten into boxing. You may have heard that. I think it's a Marvin Hagler line that like it's hard to get up and train at 6am with silk sheets, and in this song I feel like you kind of touch on that. Like that your ambition was waning a little bit. Where were you during that period and how did you kind of change that mindset?
Vin Jay:Yeah, I have felt my ambition for music specifically wane more than once in the past because it's like you know, why do I care to be perceived as a really good rapper, or better than most? Because deep down I don't care what others think about me. So if that was my driver for so long of like, I want to impress people and all of a sudden the opinion of others doesn't matter to you anymore. Your fire is gone, your ambition is gone. So I had to change my fire, so to speak, and the way I got out of lacking ambition was realizing that this is not for anybody else but myself.
Vin Jay:The byproducts whether it's the accolades, the money, the inspiring others, all cool, all great, but when I am not trying to do better than I did yesterday, I am more sad, and so I don't want to be more sad. So I'm going to continue to be ambitious for the sake of living a purposeful, fulfilling life, and once I realized that was the intention, now behind everything, the ambition is a lot harder to lose than because you realize that having ambition isn't a choice so you could be more successful. It's a choice because the opposite of being ambitious is just going to bring you to like a place of despair over a long enough period of time absolutely.
Aaron Pete:May I ask how many songs didn't make the album?
Vin Jay:jesus. Great song, a great song, great question, um, complete songs probably three, but in terms of how many songs were created throughout the album process, that just didn't end up panning out way more than three, probably closer like 15 to 20, wow what is that like?
Aaron Pete:to have to almost like let those ideas go and just go like nope, gotta move on still learning how to do it, bro um.
Vin Jay:But what I will do, because there's greatness, there's bits of greatness in all of these things that we've created, but sometimes the final product just isn't great enough. But so what I'll do is, like I'll revisit. If I have a verse recorded over a beat and it has no hook, right, and it's just a verse, one over a beat, that's OK. But the verse has some real power behind it. Okay, in three months maybe I'll bounce out that acapella to a producer and be like I need you to create something crazy around this. And then it kind of breathes new life into it. And now this beat that he put on it that I've never heard before makes me think of another artist who could elevate the record even further. And now it gives us an idea for the hook which changes the entire intention and energy of the song. So it's having letting go of these things, having faith that down the line they will find their home in another fashion.
Aaron Pete:Fascinating. The other piece is you obviously order the album in a logic. If someone listens to the full album in order, what do you think they'll take away from it in comparison to choosing a few songs?
Vin Jay:One, I will think they will understand me much better as an individual. I think they will understand the, especially because you know it's coming from one person, although there's features. Um, they will. It will further help them understand the complexity of a human being and that it's okay to have these different sides of yourself.
Vin Jay:If you only listen to trouble and prayed up, you'd be like Vin is like an aggressive dude, like I don't know why he's just that aggressive. But if you listen to the whole thing, you're like oh, we can have aggressive moments when certain things need to be achieved or points need to be made, and that's still. And we could have moments of a bit more sad introspection. And then also other moments of introspection that are a bit tainted by doubt and the need to prove yourself, and then moments of full-blown confidence where it's like, wow, in this moment he felt like he was the shit and that's great because the energy was captured and so, yeah, I would say one, you would understand me better as an artist. And two, if we're trying to encapsulate the complexity of human emotions, you need the entire album for that.
Aaron Pete:What has the reaction been from your perspective?
Vin Jay:And that includes people reaching out to you saying oh, this is amazing people. You might not expect the response online. Yeah, the response has been great. First and foremost, it's such a PC album meaning Adolescent Reject is nothing like Trouble right that the feedback I've been getting. Some people will hit me up and be like yo this album is great and I love it and thank you so much for everything you do. But because the songs differ so much from each other, I've noticed that a lot of the messages are certain songs resonating really hard with someone. It's more so, like yo, this one song like I've had it on repeat for the past two days because what you said here and what you said here resonated with me hard. And that's another reason I like to be very versatile on albums, because not everyone will resonate with the same stuff, whether it's the words I choose or the energy I choose. So I try to like do what they call paint with broad strokes so that I can I can touch the most people touch the most people.
Aaron Pete:You've talked about how going into album mode can be a bit of a challenge because you get locked in and you have a project. You want to get it to completion. It's a journey to go through. Is it a relief now that you're on the other side, now that it's out?
Vin Jay:My brother. I hate making albums, so I can't even. I would much rather make singles every day of the week. It just so happens that I feel the need to give my core fan base a body of work. Sometimes I feel like they deserve it. They deserve to be able to listen to seven songs in a row that they've never heard before, as opposed to one-offs. One-offs are great for business and easier on my mental health, but after a while it starts to feel like fast food. It's like okay, one, one, one. It's just real. Dopamine hits um and albums cause you to make a balanced thing. Right. If I just did 12 prayed ups, it's like we get it, but it causes me to dive into that realm.
Vin Jay:The problem with me is I'm such a perfectionist that for me to get 13 songs that I deem good enough to come out is a nightmare, and for me to approve all the mixes and like all the features on it, it's a lot. So is it a relief? Yes, I am so excited that the album is out, but I can't help myself and like giving myself problems. So I have an EP right now. That is done. It's five songs.
Vin Jay:I'll give you a little bit of exclusive info right here it's me and Crypto Wisdom. It's a collaborative EP, just me and him, and it's five songs and everything is recorded. We are in the mixing process now. On top of that that needs to be mixed, I am creating my next project. Currently I'm not sure if it's going to be an album yet, because I told you how much I hate it, but I have a solo project, a full solo, that I'm working on for after that EP, because I feel like I've been collaborating a lot and I would like to just have a piece of work where I can listen back and the fans that is like, wow, this is where this is what I did, specifically when I had free reign to turn the song into what I wanted to strictly.
Aaron Pete:I'm very excited for those two projects.
Aaron Pete:Thank you for being willing to share that the. The piece that I feel like is is worth lingering on is how special those projects are from my perspective because and and you can correct me if I'm wrong I feel like the single world, like dropping singles, asks for a lot of energy, a lot of catchiness and songs where you're willing to be a bit more vulnerable not that you haven't released those, but those are far less common and I feel like there's a lot to learn from, because I feel like, out of seven days, you probably maybe give yourself one bad day in a week where you're not like, where you're not hard on yourself but like to go through. That. To see that side of you is something extra special in those albums because it's something you don't like to linger on you. So when you go there, there's a reason to go there. You're not just going there to pity yourself or to complain or to vent or like. You're going there to resolve something which just makes it more deep and more meaningful when you do go there in an album.
Vin Jay:Yeah, that is probably the one thing I like about albums is not everything needs to be a smash hit, because when you're releasing singles you are saying to everybody hey guys, I'm about to do a thing and you should come look at this thing because it's worth your attention, like so much so that I had to put it on its own pedestal right. So I can't put adolescent reject out as a single because it's not like you need to. This is gonna blow your mind like it's just a moment. It's, it's just a space of uh, of thought.
Aaron Pete:So, yeah, that is something that I like about albums is not everything needs to be prayed up or fucking you know what other trouble the big sounding ones you know yeah, the other piece that I really like about your albums are that you like address a topic, like you think something through and there's a journey, and like that's just it couldn't be more clear with the human experience where you just walk through the journey of like figuring out yourself and having your family go against you or your friends go against you, or like the world go against you in some regards, and you're pushing through that and there's something like there's a thesis to the whole project human experience.
Vin Jay:For me is a extremely special album because it is such. It was such a time of quick, quick change. It's really cool to like capture it and see myself like morphing in real time in that moment. I was really in between like two people in that moment in time.
Aaron Pete:Can you tell me what has your family's reaction been, seeing that they're such a crucial part? What did it mean to them to see this all come together?
Vin Jay:So I think I think it's an uncomfortable topic for my family Cause, as you know, I I'm pretty open about what I say and I don't really hold back the way I say it. So none of them have really like approached me when I've said certain things in in my music, I think, um, I've had conversations like with my mom, like like after I put out breakdown, however many years ago, she called me because she's like that was like really dark, you know. But they're never judgmental about what I'm saying because it's, at the end of the day, it's my perspective, right, the ultimate truth, and there is no other way. There's no other side to this story or how someone else perceived it. It's just my perspective and idea on the situation and also, to an extent, my projections, right, because I could.
Vin Jay:I'm telling you what I think other people are thinking. I think other people are thinking. So that says more about me than it does about anybody else. So, yeah, I've never really had any deep conversations with my family about what I say about my life and an ecosystem in my music. I think we could. I don't think anyone wants to have that conversation, though.
Aaron Pete:Agreed I, and I think brave if they do right, Like if you're willing to go there and have those difficult conversations. Some of them perhaps don't need to be raised because there's no, there's nothing to be squeezed out of that rock, but some of them it's like it's interesting to see, when you present somebody with your perspective, how they want to respond to that and to your point. It's your perspective, but it's always interesting to see how people respond when confronted with with your perspective yeah, and it's just shit that's bothering me.
Vin Jay:You know. It's not like not, I never say anyone's doing anything wrong. I'm saying this is how this thing makes me feel and I don't think you can say anything to that.
Aaron Pete:Vin, this has been an absolute pleasure. We've just hit the two hour mark and it's such an honor to be able to speak with you. Thank you for sticking around for so long and going through this album and, as I've said, like I do think you're a prophet, I do think you do exactly what I described at the beginning of Profit Does, of walking people how to think about morality, how to reach their full potential and bringing that abundance to people in a time where I feel like you provide that. You offer so much good advice and just in speaking with you, it's clear that you think these things through. Then you go, sit down and you write an album and it's just an honor to see you put that together, because I think some people they can speak really fast or they can say things really quickly, but they're not saying that much and there's so much depth to every lyric that we've gone through today.
Vin Jay:Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me. It's always super fun to dive into the art because I just make it and put it out, so when we can kind of break it down for everybody, it's always very exciting.
Aaron Pete:Exactly Everybody. Go check out Good Company. It's an incredible album. I think every song on there is just absolutely phenomenal and there's so many different takeaways to have and you really get to process every type of emotion when you listen to it. So thank you for putting in so much work into creating it and it's a privilege to connect with you about it again.
Vin Jay:Thank you. Thank you for having me. We'll see you next time. You, you, yeah, yeah nah. This one's like actually crazy, though, but I guess they all are.
Aaron Pete:Still climbing the ranks, rhyming with grace. Never shown signs of restraint when trying to be great. Put my soul into these records. I'm refining my taste. My mind is a bank of pure gems, diamond encased. Look your man's prolific. I'll ask a critic. The answer's written in blood on the plaques and ribbons.
Aaron Pete:The plan's specific hustle and surpass my limits. I live a rockstar lifestyle. Bands come with it, come on, pursue a couple accolades and then proceed to kill. I make your favorite rapper change how they perceive and skill the money coming in so fast. Don't gotta read the bills and labels flashing money at me like I need a male. Jesus Guess they didn't know that they was dealing with a genius.
Aaron Pete:800 racks out of my bedroom. I'm prestigious. Never seen this hunger with this level of achievement. Look inside the bank. It ain't a wonder I'm conceited. Got me a crib. I'm about to get two to five more. When I hustle I win and they never scrutinize yours.
Aaron Pete:When a man in the mirror told me, pursue the right cause, I went from suicidal to the suicide doors. Drastic. I'm increasing the bandwidth, advancing Music as dark as Marilyn Manson. It's cancerous. I was making records at my dad's crib. The one you hearing now is from a million dollar mansion, expensive, long as a pen in my palm. I ain't got no business ever working, no regular job. Picture me checking the clock pray to replenish the quad. Never been a little fish type on the Megalodon.
Aaron Pete:Homie, you ready or not? Cause I'm about to make it all clear? If you better guess me, it's about to be a long year. Oh yeah, ain't no suit and tie but homie. I've been in the boss tier Neighbors looking at me like a bum who don't belong here. It's only fuel in the flame.
Aaron Pete:I got respect plus power. Don't confuse it with fame. Never worry bout another man or who's in the game, cause I'm a king. Y'all are pawns. We ain't movin' the same. Gotta climb till I fall. I survive through it. All I done swam through the universe. Align with the laws. Tell them, rise and applaud. I'm about to get it poppin'. Sell the boy a business. I'ma run it like Goggins. I got this. All around the world. They been admiring the GOAT. Yeah, every other line I write is fire in the grove. All this paper stacking. Now we silencing the jokes. I cannot imagine, when retirement approach, still, that shit ain't happening. Soon I'm 20x my net worth and then it's back to the booth. Shit is bigger than the game. This is my path to improve, and if I'm breathing I don't have an excuse. Know what I'm talking about.
Vin Jay:Know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I'm talking about.
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